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Smart Charge · 5 November 2025 · 1 hr 24 min

Ep. 32: Nanno Janssen von Nanno Janssen Logistics - Elektrifizierung des Fernverkehrs und Skalierung von E‑Lkw in Deutschland

Transcript

Cleaned up from a machine transcript. Translations are machine-generated and may contain errors.

Welcome to the Smart Charge by RiDERgy Podcast. This is Claudio Geyken, Founder and CEO of RiDERgy. This is your show to learn about all things energy management and smart charging innovation for electric vehicles and fleets.

Today's guest: Nano Jansen, Managing Director of the company bearing his name, which has been a family business for almost 130 years. The company operates around 70 vehicles and has deliberately leveraged the ramp-up of e-mobility. By January 2026, 58 electric trucks are planned. That corresponds to 70 to 80 percent of the fleet. Deliveries are made nationwide, often into city centres, with a focus on sensitive and high-value goods. The company is a niche provider with broad industry coverage – from plants to automotive to hazardous materials and electrical engineering. Diversification as a stability anchor. Strategically, investment in e-mobility came early: vehicles from seven manufacturers, a targeted

4-megawatt connection capacity, 800 kilowatts peak photovoltaic and 1.3 megawatt-hours of storage. With load management and dynamic tariffs, costs drop. Up to 90 percent of its own solar power is used, often cheaper than diesel and well below public charging stations. CPO framework contracts and the E-Tracker chip secure prices and prevent incorrect bookings. Roaming is to be eliminated. We talk about cost control at the depot and on the road, process bottlenecks like waiting times at the shipper, planning certainty through policy – keywords toll, subsidy logic – and about technology decisions from 300 kilowatt charging to bidirectionality, plus a look at AI and autonomous driving. I've watched many

Electrotrucker videos, already had Michael Clark, the co-founder of the E-Trucker app and this chip, on the podcast. And this conversation is a perfect complement to that impressive story. Headphones on, let's go. Hello, Nano. Great that you're here. How are you today? Hi, Claudio. Thanks so much for the invitation. I'm doing well. We had a bit of a delay with German Railways. They didn't disappoint. How did you travel from Fulda? Yes, exactly. I came from Fulda. Instead of about three

hours it ended up being five and a half. But okay. On the other hand, I've also experienced arriving much earlier than originally planned by train. So it works the other way around too. And when you travel – so of course for work, if you occasionally take a truck and drive through Germany or internationally – is it more by train or plane than by car? The train is of course nice because I can work while I'm on it

Exactly. But of course I also occasionally travel by car or truck. Well, for those who don't know you: please introduce yourself briefly. Yes, I'm Nano Jansen, now the fifth generation at our family business, and I also run a company in Fulda, Sievers Logistics, which I took over three years ago. Overall, I joined the family business four years ago while doing my Master's degree. And that's when we asked ourselves: How do we position our company for the future

and then we really focused on e-mobility, which is why I think we're here today. And before we dive into the e-mobility topic, just for clarity: Nano is, so to speak, the company that's been around for five – or now then five – generations, and Sievers, which you took over, how did that come about? Exactly, Sievers Logistics was basically an external succession. So many mid-sized companies are looking for successors right now, I'd say, because they don't have one in the family or the company. And Sievers was similar in that my predecessor there was looking for a successor. And then we came to an agreement, and yes, exactly, it's a company with 20 employees, which I think is quite good for a start, to also gain your own management experience. That was a bit the motivation behind it. And Fulda doesn't hurt either, because Fulda is right in the middle of Germany, so we can supply our customers nationwide from there

too. Exactly. There we also focus a lot on warehouse logistics and this comprehensive service, so from goods receipt to packaging, storage, order picking – so less transport – through to the end customer, and a lot in the gastronomy sector. So we really drive into city centres, into pedestrian zones, with smaller vehicles from Fulda. Yes, we've specialised more in sensitive and high-value goods, which are only loaded into the vehicle once and reach the end customer without any transshipment. Exciting. And how was it

for you? Was it always clear to you that you'd take over the company, as this fifth generation? Or did you – you also studied – have other ideas at some point? Well, basically that was always the plan. It really became concrete during my studies. I actually did a dual degree program at Krone, which is a vehicle manufacturer for trailers. And that was on the one hand a good mix: okay, I wanted to get an insight into the industry. And at the same time the customers were from logistics – basically best of both worlds, insight into both areas – which I found very interesting. So basically my plan was always very targeted at eventually taking over the family business. And what do you find exciting about logistics, if your heart goes out to logistics, for those who might be a bit more distant from logistics?

for you? Was it always clear to you that you would take over the company as this fifth generation? Or did you – you also studied – have other ideas at some point? Well, basically that was always the plan. It really became concrete during my studies. I actually did a dual study program at Krone, which is a vehicle manufacturer for trailers. And that was on the one hand a good mix: okay, I wanted to get an insight into the industry. And at the same time the customers were from logistics – basically the best of both worlds, insight into both areas – which I found very interesting. So basically my plan was always very targeted at eventually taking over the family business. And what do you find exciting about logistics, if your heart goes out to logistics, for those who might be a bit more distant from logistics?

Why do you find logistics exciting, if your passion is for logistics, for those who might be a bit further removed from the logistics sector?

Yes, what's really interesting is that logistics somehow connects all processes and all industries together. We learn from all kinds of industries what's happening there technically. That makes logistics super exciting because you're the connecting link between all industries. At the same time, of course, we're also problem solvers in a way, which I think is one of my strengths – that I come up with solution concepts relatively quickly. Whether they're always good, others can judge that.

Yes, cool. And what else did you take away? I also saw that you had experience at Amazon and GLS in addition to Kühne. What did you take away or learn from these experiences? Yes, it was definitely always exciting to look into other industries or see how other companies do things. I mean, Amazon was also an exciting company – how they structured their processes. I myself would certainly have done many things differently than they did.

than the way they did them. Can you think of an example to make that clearer? Well, I wouldn't have had 20 warehouses or distribution centers in Germany, but would have focused on a few, since from each location in Germany I can actually reach anywhere overnight. So I don't really need so many goods spread out, and then I have to pull traffic between the warehouses, because in the end the goods that the customer needs aren't directly at their location, but rather maybe in Munich or Berlin.

But well, that's ultimately a business strategy that you can't influence as an intern. Not yet. Yes, but it's all the nicer that you can and are allowed to influence your own company. What's actually the story behind Nano Jansen as a company? How did it come about? How did your great-great-grandfather – if I've gauged that correctly – found it back then? Do you happen to know that? Exactly, well it actually started, so almost 130 years ago, when my great-great-grandfather bought a haulage license, so to speak, so that he was allowed to transport goods within the city or within the region – in Emden back then.

And of course everything was transported by coach and carriage. That went on for a very long time too. Back then there were these concessions that really kept all freight transport companies limited to their region. And long-distance transport was ultimately handled by rail. I'd say that was still very strongly defined in Germany up into the nineties.

Then with the removal of concessions, all logistics companies were able to grow large because they could expand very broadly. From a regulatory perspective, there were no more limits. That's why most logistics companies have become very large over the last thirty, forty years. And how can you picture that personally with you? How was the company set up before that moment came, and how are you now – if you name a few key figures about company size?

Exactly, I can't say exactly 100 percent right now, but back then it must have been around 23 trucks when my father took over the business. And then it grew relatively quickly to 40, 50 trucks. At that level it stayed – of course it grew slightly each year, but it remained stable. And now in the last two or three years we're expanding significantly more in order to be able to advance this new technology. In the meantime we have around 70 vehicles, and by January a total of 58 electric trucks are coming.

So we'll have a total of 58 electric trucks, and a few diesel vehicles will definitely stay in the fleet as well. But I'd say 70 to 80 percent will already be electrified in a few months. That's already exciting. Yes, I'm also looking forward to doing a deep dive in a moment. But back to the question again: so you expanded partly because of e-mobility – or is e-mobility now leading to growth that's expanding even faster after this stable phase? Exactly, so we actually also had the advantage that we speculated that the power train transition was imminent.

That's why we barely bought new diesel trucks in recent years – so the trucks are now all quite old again, so we can quickly replace them now. And that's of course an enormous advantage when we can completely retrofit the fleet. We can also sort out some trucks anyway. If we'd kept buying new diesel vehicles continuously, then we wouldn't be handing them over after 12 years.

And that was the advantage – we speculated a bit on it. And we wanted to approach the whole topic a bit bigger, because either you do some kind of test object or you do it properly. So we decided to pursue it consistently. Well, that's cool. What's typically the lifespan of a truck been in diesel, and do you assume it will be the same for electric? I'd say depending on use, purpose and duration, at least six to eight years.

That's how long most forwarding companies keep trucks, I think. And after that they go to the second-hand market, mostly outside of Europe too. Yes, those were the previous timeframes. With the electric truck – well, there are theoretical assumptions, but nobody really knows exactly yet.

knows exactly yet.

I don't think anyone believes that. The manufacturers certainly give huge guarantees on the batteries. What is that, 8 years or so? Yes, I think MAN even goes further, 13 years, and correspondingly also for a high number of kilometers, so I think around one million. Exactly. And those are of course already values that don't fall short compared to diesel. Yes. How many kilometers does such a vehicle do per year with you? Around 100 to 120,000, I would say,

but it also always depends on the application. So we have very diverse customers. Yes, exactly. That was my follow-up question. Great. What kind of customers do you serve, or what use cases? Exactly. So we've positioned ourselves relatively broadly, but at the same time we also serve a lot of niche markets. We very often do the things where others stop. Exactly, and also many things that are produced in our region, or way up north in East Frisia. Exactly. So for example we drive a lot for

plant logistics, which you probably also often see from Tobias Wagner. Then we transport complete garden houses with pallet jacks, do a lot in the automotive sector, also thanks to our proximity to the VW plant in Emden. They accordingly need volume trailers. Then we also do a lot in the hazardous goods transport sector, exactly, also in the Class 1 segment. Class 1, that's explosive stuff like fireworks and similar things. Exactly, and then of course also classic things and many things that also have to do with

electricity, for example wind turbine parts. Yes, that's great. I've seen that too. Transformers, charging stations – it's almost perfect – or solar modules and so on. So we already do a lot with electromobility and renewable energies, especially because our region is very shaped by that, for example through Enerkon, which also – that's right – has its headquarters in East Frisia. Exactly. And we're very broadly positioned there, which is always quite good because when one industry is basically in crisis, another industry is booming, and so overall it always looks quite good. And exactly, we ultimately put a lot of emphasis on quality and reliability. That's our main focus, so that we deliver the best possible quality to the customer at the end. And when you say rather niche topics where many others say no – to what extent do the others say no to these topics, or why actually? Yes, sometimes you need special

equipment for it. Exactly, so the art is actually always to find new niches where you can stand out a bit in the transport sector. Because purely technically the market is already very similar. The pure transport from A to B is usually not that complex, many can offer that. And we're always on the lookout for certain niches where others really

hit their limits, whether it's pushing some server transport up to the third floor through the window or something like that. Exactly. So those are already many special applications, which of course allows for a fairer price to be paid. And it's also very international. So you don't just stay in your region and Germany, but, at least from what I've seen, all the way to Turkey and to Portugal. That's quite something. Yes, exactly. So within the EU there are of course no borders,

at least within the European economic area.

Exactly, although that really always depends on our customer, where they want their things transported to. So most of our customers are of course very focused on the German market somewhere, I'd say 80% of transports move somewhere within Germany. But of course we also have many project businesses outside Europe. Yes. These orders – how do they actually come about? Is there like a spot market where you can take on very short-notice orders? And

then there are probably framework contracts that you've had for years. Is that how you can imagine it? Yes, exactly. So many inquiries actually come in classically via email. And exactly, we normally always drive directly for the industrial companies or for the end customer, because we've already been on the market for years and have therefore been able to gain many customer relationships. Where do then

roles like a platform such as Sennder or something like that play, where you do matchmaking – does that play a role? Exactly. So we actually focus directly on end-customer business. Because I think someone like Sennder is ultimately nothing more than a broker who then also takes their commissions. And that's why with us it's actually the case that we do direct customer business, so we conclude direct contracts with, let's say, the client. And

with the shipper or with the receiver, depending on who ultimately pays for the freight. And normally the customers come directly to us. These are sometimes also large corporations, but also small and medium-sized businesses from the region. And exactly, so most of it runs through long-term contracts so that we also really have this line business, and sometimes it's ad-hoc, so that an inquiry just comes in via email or phone. Yes, exactly. And then we make an offer. And

with the shipper or with the receiver, depending on who ultimately pays for the freight. And normally the customers come directly to us. These are sometimes also large corporations, but also small and medium-sized businesses from the region. And exactly, so most of it runs through long-term contracts so that we also really have this line business, and sometimes it's ad-hoc, so that an inquiry just comes in via email or phone. Yes, exactly. And then we make an offer. And

Exactly, that's how the order comes about. And now – I'm not a logistics expert, forgive me if this is a basic question, but I think maybe I'm not the only one who gets a bit confused sometimes. In the entire logistics industry there are freight forwarders and there are hauliers. You would classify yourselves as both. And are there also freight forwarders who basically take on orders from shippers and recipients and then pass them on to you? Because as far as I know there are

freight forwarders who aren't hauliers at all. And then there's this hybrid role. And then there are hauliers who are only hauliers. Exactly. So we are a freight forwarder with own haulage, that's what it's called. So we basically take freight from end customers and also carry out the transports ourselves. Exactly, and that's what I said: we normally take on transports directly from end customers, except via freight exchanges to minimize empty runs. But we only take on transports from other freight forwarders if they fit well into our plan, but of course the price pressure is even greater there than with the other freight forwarders. So there are subcontracted jobs, so to speak. And you do all this route planning yourselves, basically? And do you use specific software for planning a route like that? Yes, exactly. We use Solo Plan in this case. That's logistics software with which

we then determine the order and the unloading stations accordingly. And beyond that, the driver is responsible for the detailed route planning themselves. So we don't tell him which motorway to take – and the same applies to the charging processes, by the way. So we give the drivers recommendations about where they can charge, but he should ultimately figure it out himself. Because if there's a diversion or a traffic jam, then he should be

able to help himself. Otherwise, with 35 trucks currently, I think, we'd be pretty busy if we had to tell every truck driver when to start their break or charging process. And the keyword is drivers: there's a lot of driver shortage in the industry. How is it for you? Is it also a huge hurdle to find enough drivers? Or is it the case that because you also have a certain level of recognition now, you don't really have a problem? Yes, exactly. It's always

a bit fluctuating. Of course, with our expansions we also have significantly higher demand for drivers. So generally we also get a lot of applications from people who want to come to us, but at the same time of course there are also phases where drivers become scarce. Especially when many orders start at the same time, particularly the larger ones, then of course we suddenly have to find six to ten drivers ad hoc. Yes, exactly, and that's then a bit more, I'd say, demanding. But in general,

I think if you create fair conditions, drivers are still available. And yes, back to e-mobility, now a deep dive into e-mobility. You have – you said you already speculated about that, which means you already had a plan or were really keen on e-mobility. How did that actually come about for you? Exactly. So on the one hand, it's also a bit from childhood because I basically grew up next to windmills.

And exactly. So I've always been very interested in wind energy and similar topics. And then my father also came along and said there's this KSNE programme and also that the city of Leer, where we participated in a tender, wants the whole thing to be transported more sustainably. And then we looked at the KSNE programme closely and decided to actually order 20

vehicles including infrastructure back then. Exactly, where most people were probably a bit more hesitant than we were in this case. So we said: okay, if I then really have 20 vehicles, then I can also hire an employee who takes care of this e-mobility issue. If as a mid-sized company I only had, say, 12 vehicles, then that would of course be significantly more effort and significantly more costly than if we focus fully on it. And did you,

to have this courage, also do a basic TCO analysis that convinced you so strongly that it's worth taking this risk – this new thing, e-mobility, which you don't know so well and which changes processes – also to venture? In general it was already clear that e-mobility will definitely play an important role in the future. And that's why the conditions were of course already very good. Of course it's the case that the vehicles will eventually become significantly cheaper than they were back then, and also the infrastructure might become a bit cheaper. But the funding was certainly back then – I think 80 percent of the additional costs and 80 percent of the investment costs for the infrastructure – already very attractive. And that's why we – of course you can keep calculating endlessly and work out the last decimal place somehow, but we certainly did the calculation somewhere – in the end

vehicles including infrastructure to order. Exactly, where then most people were probably a bit more hesitant than we were in that case. So we said: okay, if I then really have 20 vehicles, then I can also hire an employee who focuses on this e-mobility issue. If as a mid-sized company I only had, say, 12 vehicles, then that would of course be significantly more effort and significantly more costly than if we focus fully on it. And did you,

to have this courage, also do a basic TCO analysis that convinced you so strongly that it's worth taking this risk – this new thing, e-mobility, which you don't know so well and which changes processes – also to venture? In general it was already clear that e-mobility will definitely play an important role in the future. And that's why the conditions were of course already very good. Of course it's the case that the vehicles will eventually become significantly cheaper than they were back then, and also the infrastructure might become a bit cheaper. But the funding was certainly back then – I think 80 percent of the additional costs and 80 percent of the investment costs for the infrastructure – already very attractive. And that's why we – of course you can keep calculating endlessly and work out the last decimal place somehow, but we certainly did the calculation somewhere – in the end

are these also just theoretical values, because we didn't know either whether it would work that well. As I said, we mainly drive long-distance transport with the vehicles. And then e-mobility suddenly became a topic – when we submitted the funding application, we initially assumed that we would have to order around 20 Volvo FH Electric trucks. And they only had a range of about 300 kilometers with correspondingly slower charging performance. And that's why we actually assumed that we

would only drive local transport and mainly operate with our own infrastructure. Exactly, in the months when the application was approved, we then inquired with other vehicle manufacturers, because we also needed comparative offers within the scope of this funding, and then discovered that they actually had much more interesting vehicles. Exactly for that reason we then – in terms of range – ordered 8 DAF and 10 Scania instead of the 20 vehicles. And those were then

already much more suitable for long-distance transport. And we also inquired about the Iveco when it came out with 550 kWh net capacity, and they then submitted these funding applications through their leasing company so that it was also orderable at reasonable costs. And then we simply tried it, testing it gradually in long-distance transport as well. And of course Tobias Wagner was

an important factor when he came to us. We simply gave him routes that went much further away. And because we then discovered that it works so well, we also drove the expansion even further. And nowadays, as I said, soon 80 percent of the vehicles are driving electrically. That's huge. And for the skeptics in logistics – there are already many voices that are a bit more conservative

towards e-mobility, who still have diesel in their blood, so to speak. What convinced you then? You just said: e-mobility is coming, that was clear for us. You don't need to convince me, but why is it so clear for you that e-mobility is coming? Well, that's of course related to the overall climate balance, because you have to consider: the EU, for example, has set clear limits, by 2030 and by 2050 to significantly reduce CO2 or even achieve climate neutrality.

And these goals are actually only achievable with e-mobility – at least with technologies that are currently on the market. Nothing comes close to the CO2 savings of the e-truck. And it's also the only technology that in the end – because energy generation is being converted to renewable energy sources – can be almost completely CO2-neutral. And at the same time, when we look at technologies like hydrogen: they're not really available, or from an economic perspective very

far away, and also because of the energy efficiency of the drive model I don't really see the possibilities there to get very close to it. To e-mobility – we agree on that. Tobias Wagner, who is also called the Electro Trucker or calls himself that – I'm also a fan, haven't watched all the videos, but quite a lot of them. What was your first impression when he approached you? Was that immediately a yes, you're hired, or was there some skepticism. Oh, who comes here from Bavaria? Because a guy from southern Germany who wants the whole north, will he even come?

Actually, my father called me that evening and said: Yes, someone has applied, or he called me. He wants to accompany the whole thing through the media, so to speak, and would like to start as a truck driver. And then I said: Yeah, sure, let's do it. I mean, we have nothing to

lose if there's someone who is willing to test new things with us. Whether that then gets media attention or not was secondary for us at first. It was mainly about us seeing whether these long-distance routes that we're currently mainly oriented towards from our customer base would also work electrically. And we found that super exciting. And then to have a driver there who is willing and ready

to simply start driving and also accept the difficulties and challenges, that was of course, I'd say, a lottery win. And that it then also gets such media attention is all the more valuable. Yes, and that means I understood correctly that you hadn't done long-distance transport before him. He was, so to speak, the one who started with it. Well, the thing is, the vehicles actually only came when he inquired. He saw a picture of our charging park,

which was opened sometime in January. And then he also got a small press article from me, I think. And he apparently saw that. But it only showed a 7.5-tonner. Then he simply called anyway and asked whether they might be interested in the project. And exactly then we – that was then yes, exactly, about a year and a half ago now, I think it was in April –

exactly, and then we invited Tobias to Iveco. We got a driver training or driver induction in the new eWay. Exactly, then we said: Since he's in the vicinity, well not that far from Mühldorf am Inn, we invited him there. And exactly, then he could also do his first test drive with the truck. Exactly. And then it started on July 1st, 2024 for him. He then

started with local transport first to learn how to handle the vehicles and secure cargo. And then after two to three weeks we already sent him to long-distance transport. And long-distance transport was already conceivable for you because it's possible to charge quickly at existing MCS/HPC charging stations, exactly. So that was – exactly – we naturally dealt very intensively with the whole topic and then here and there sometimes, so my father also went to

a few charging parks, looked at it there to see if it was somehow possible to charge with the truck. So already beforehand. From a theory perspective it was like this – those were thoughts where we said: OK, that should somehow be possible. But whether it actually works, there were still question marks. At least the more remote local transport routes we wanted to drive electrically. That's why we acquired the eWay for example.

And exactly, when we saw that it works, we then ordered more vehicles. Yes, and in local transport you then basically always planned in such a way that you could recharge with you again, so that the tour functions without the need to charge at the customer's or on the road. Yes, exactly. Or we would have actually had to look for new customers in our area because we, as I said, are actually more long-distance transport oriented. As I said,

we already had contact with a few truck charging park operators who were about 100 km away from us. Even there we knew: OK, we can then extend our radius by another 100 km. So that was already clear. And that that would eventually continue, that was also, I would say, in the outlook. But whether that always functions in each case, we really established that in the process. And did the other drivers then basically let Tobi

train them? Were they then already very quickly independent on the road? Exactly, so we sent other drivers to long-distance transport quite quickly. I also drove with them back then. Exactly, we drove to Spain together back then, to Madrid. Yes, exactly. And many other drivers also switched very quickly to the electric truck and then did it accordingly. Exactly. And in tour planning:

Are there differences compared to diesel in terms of things you have to consider, whether it takes longer because of charging? What's the conclusion after you've already done so many tours? Not really. Of course you have to make sure that the shift times don't end up being too long. The thing is, the charging breaks are actually really rest breaks for the driver because he just has to plug in the plug and then has

time for himself. If there are of course customers where there are long wait times, which the drivers then sometimes also use – technically it would be standby time, but in practice it's sometimes used as rest time anyway. And then of course in that case these charging stops would indeed be an add-on, so to speak. And that's why we've always been keen to keep the wait times at the customer as low as possible, so that we then optimize the processes with the customer so that the driver can then start directly with

loading and unloading the vehicle. The problem is that there's basically not enough space at the loading ramps, or what does it depend on that you have to wait so long in practice? That's a matter of corporate philosophy. From my point of view, the loaders should actually be much more active and adapt their loading a bit more to the trucks, because in the end of course I have higher costs with the truck driver and the vehicle than if I

make the delivery more flexible with the employees there. The problem is only that the loader doesn't pay these wait times directly, but only indirectly through the freight rate. So of course there are certain industries where very long wait times are common, and there they usually also charge higher freight rates because the logistics or haulage companies know that there will be long wait times there. So they pay it indirectly, but not directly. And then they try to distribute the loaders evenly throughout the day through time slot booking. The problem is only that

of course traffic isn't homogeneous at all. There can always be traffic jams and delays.

That means, in the end I plan in a buffer once to meet this time window. And that means I then end up with more wait times anyway than if the loading facility simply said: I deploy my staff so flexibly that I always have enough ramps or staff available when the truck driver arrives. Of course you can limit that a bit – I mean, if I have a space limitation overall, I can certainly limit that a bit.

But generally the loaders should be much more flexible. I mean, we already have a problem somewhere with finding good new drivers. And then still having these drivers wait for ages at the places before that, I don't think that's the right approach. Yes, absolutely. That makes total sense. And I assume some are aware of some of these problems, and maybe you need to structure the incentives a bit differently. And you've

Various electric trucks, as you already mentioned. I think I read somewhere around seven manufacturer brands. Is that current? Exactly. How do you decide to work with so many manufacturers or just one manufacturer – how does that work in practice? Exactly. So normally it's like this: For example, way back we had a purely Mercedes-Benz fleet, and then we switched to MAN and DAF, so we had mainly those two models. And now in e-mobility it's actually the case that

the.

that the individual manufacturers have specialized in very different fields. So one has focused on high charging power and

range. Another one went lower with the body heights. Then there are those that are significantly better with service and maintenance, but not as good in range, so they can be used in local transport. And then there are some in between that do a bit of everything. And that's why we actually decided to use six or seven manufacturers, simply to always have the best vehicle for the job for our very different customers,

and at the same time that's of course also a motivation of mine that all manufacturers survive this step into e-mobility. Because I don't think it benefits us as a logistics industry if in the end only two or three manufacturers remain. That would ultimately lead to an oligopoly. And that's why it's already a concern of mine that everyone stays focused on this topic and continues with the necessary development steps. And

we're happy to support them in that. And it would actually also be important that not just Nano Jansen, so to speak, takes the lead in e-mobility, but also others who are set up similarly. To your knowledge, are there many companies that are also going your route, similar companies to yours? Yes, exactly. Basically there are some logistics companies that are already quite far along. Usually it's actually the case that those who decided to go this route, they go into scaling like we do as well and create more and more

every time. Because every additional truck I buy ultimately lowers costs. And just to clarify: how many companies are there actually like that in Germany, in the way you are? Are there hundreds, thousands – what kind of scale are we talking about? Yes, but of course you're also – maybe we should phrase the question differently, in the sense that you're freight forwarders of a certain size –

maybe not directly, there are around ten freight companies, I think, in that

in that company size, so to speak, that do something like this. Do you think most of them are switching to e-mobility now? So far there are still only a few. I do notice that many are dealing with the topic, but in concrete implementation – I think those are still single-digit percentages who have acquired at least one electric truck. Yes, that's interesting. And in terms of noise protection, there's definitely an advantage with e-mobility in that you have very low noise

levels. Would that change anything in your eyes? Or could you also approach this differently from a regulatory perspective so that your business model would also change – so that you could also make deliveries at night? Do you see developments and innovations in that direction? Yes, they've already done that for example in the Netherlands and London. So in London, I think you can only enter the city with a zero-emission vehicle now. That's why English companies are also pushing hard on e-mobility. Although

charging prices are more expensive there than here. We'll get to the prices. And in the Netherlands they actually have this night delivery with particularly low-emission vehicles, so also with low-noise vehicles. There's this green L for example. That's for night delivery in the Netherlands. I could imagine similar things would also make sense for Germany, especially for cities and municipalities that then want to do something for their residents

and the environment in the end. That would certainly be a good approach to say: OK, night deliveries to supermarkets or similar things would only come with – yes, exactly – with vehicles that would probably be electric in that case. You already mentioned charging prices. That was a question I had. There are lots of differences in public charging stations with charging prices. How do you deal with that so you're not caught off guard and you optimize costs? Exactly, so we

have actually concluded contracts with individual CPOs in that case, where we negotiated individual prices that also depend a bit on the purchase volume. Because we have such a large fleet, we can of course also purchase different volumes. And that means you only go to these CPOs? Exactly, so at the beginning we saw that we could charge anywhere so that we could actually drive the routes electrically. And nowadays the focus is more on us telling the drivers: please charge mainly at the charging station operators to keep the costs low in the end. And do you have a charging card from the MSP that you then only use with these CPOs? Yes, that's still a discussion. I actually don't want any roaming in there. But not all CPOs and MSPs can

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This roaming, we actually need to turn it off. Yes, I basically give everyone that as homework – to create a solution so that these cards can really only be used with the respective operator. Because in the end, it doesn't help us if we suddenly have to pay 0.80 euros net somewhere because the driver held the wrong card in front of the reader. So that's actually still a topic. And I mean, if the providers don't turn this off –

so many new truck charging parks are being built right now. In the end, we're no longer dependent on a single provider either. We wouldn't even need to be.

So exactly, we could ultimately get by without any MSP at all. I think by next year at the latest, we'll also make it a condition that they abolish roaming with their cards. And otherwise, we've recently introduced this E-Tracker chip for the smaller charging parks – Tobias has already presented it a few times in his videos. We send the operator our EVID numbers and he enters them,

and then the driver can start the charging process on site with the chip. This means that drivers no longer have to carry around eight different charging cards, but only the main MSP cards and the E-Tracker chip. Interesting. And is the E-Tracker chip – I actually haven't looked into it that much – is that a kind of MSP, or? Yes, exactly. So that's really just an EVID identifier that's registered with the charging park operator.

They then know: OK, that's us, and they unlock the charging process. I see. And then the charging park operator bills us directly as well. Interesting. And the difference in price – so you can visualize it: if you do it wrong and if you do it well, what does that mean for you in practice? Yes, exactly. So when sometimes 0.80, 0.90 euros net are really charged, that's already – well, that's at the

upper end so to speak. That can then be twice as much. Yes, that's of course quite different – we're not talking about just a percent, but. And if they then happen to charge 200, 300 kWh there, that of course hurts. Yes. And the prices he's now paying for the e-trucks. Maybe I should have mentioned that again: For the listeners – KsNI was a funding program that existed, which I think no longer exists.

for the procurement of e-trucks. That means today you simply have to go to the market – there's no more funding program. Yes. How much more does an e-truck cost now compared to a diesel?

Yes, roughly estimated still two to two and a half times as much. And that means you can recover that from the lower operating costs through TCO. Exactly – a payback time of like two years or so? No, rather over the entire lifetime in the end. The main difference in costs is, I'd say, ultimately the toll. In Germany it's 0.50 euros per kilometer for a regular diesel truck. And so far it's still

completely exempt for trucks. The EU Commission has given permission to continue this exemption until 2031. However, implementation is voluntary for member states – Germany, the German transport ministry can implement it if they want. Exactly, it's currently hanging in the German transport ministry whether the toll exemption continues. The coalition agreement states that the toll exemption goes beyond 2026. And it would really be welcome if the transport ministry also created a long-term solution, so that there's a certain level of planning security for all companies. Because this

waiting and hesitation – this spontaneous deciding by political decision-makers is actually rather counterproductive in the end for e-mobility and also for companies that want to invest. And I actually also see this as a major problem with our economy right now – that planning security just isn't there. And politics would have to provide much more stable framework conditions. And not start saying: okay, maybe we'll do it differently again tomorrow. That ultimately unsettles all companies

and then doesn't lead to a decision either. If I know for sure, okay, there are no funding programs, but these and these framework conditions exist, then everything is fine. Then I can make a decision based on that. If I as a politician announce: yes, maybe we'll do a funding program next year again, some kind of purchase premium or something, then everyone waits until next year to see if maybe the purchase premium will come. And then it turns out in the budget that it doesn't exist at all, or they

don't have the money for it. Then it falls away again. But everyone still waited. And that's why this announcement of subsidies is actually poison in the end for e-mobility. It would be much better to actually say: okay, we're no longer doing funding programs, but instead we're funding through toll exemptions, for example for trucks, and also for example through a reduction in electricity tax for public charging stations or charging park operators or freight forwarders. That of course will also help to reduce operating costs overall also for private car drivers. Exactly, that's how it

looks with grid charges too. There would certainly be savings possible somewhere, so that public charging prices could come down a bit somewhere, especially for car drivers. And how much cheaper is it in operation – the energy costs so to speak – compared to diesel? About the same? Yes, but diesel prices of course fluctuate very strongly. We basically get a new diesel price every day. The same goes for the actual electricity price. So at our own

We also handle infrastructure with dynamic electricity prices. That means we pay different prices every quarter hour. But at public charging stations, there are usually fixed amounts, at least so far. And exactly, depending on whether diesel becomes cheaper and electricity a bit more expensive – there is a difference, but overall I'd say it's relatively on the same level. The diesel price doesn't fluctuate that much, I assume, or

– like 10 percent back and forth or how much, roughly speaking? Well, that's more calculated over a month. There are sometimes fluctuations of, let's say, five to ten cents or even stronger. But calculated over a single day, those are cent amounts that make a difference. And is the electricity price in public, roughly like diesel, would you say? But I assume at your depot you can get even better prices,

if you also have dynamic electricity rates. You also have a solar system – then I assume it's significantly cheaper, right? Well, of course through our own generation we can produce electricity much more cheaply in the end. Exactly. So the utilisation of the charging park is very important. I have certain fixed costs like grid charges and also the investment costs of the system. And the more trucks I end up charging there per day or over the year, the cheaper it becomes.

then the individual kilowatt hour is calculated in the end. If I manage good utilisation, much cheaper prices than at public charging stations are possible. Do you know off the top of your head how much you charge publicly and how much at your location? I think it could even be 50:50. Interesting. And how much is that roughly – I don't know if you know –

it's a very detailed question, but per truck or altogether in megawatt hours. So each truck needs roughly 100,000 kilowatt hours per year. Interesting. I'm calculating roughly at 1 kilowatt hour per kilometre. Depending on the model that can vary. If we then drive 100 to 120,000 kilometres, we can assume around 100,000 kilowatt hours per truck. Accordingly, with the current 35 we get to 3.5 million kilowatt hours and with the 58 then to

5.8 or 6 million kilowatt hours. And how big is the solar system? And how much of it can you use? Can you even manage that because the trucks are maybe on the road during the day? Do you have a battery perhaps? Yes, exactly. We have an 800 kW peak solar system and a 1.3 megawatt hour battery. But that's empty again after three trucks. We can use most of the solar energy, especially now in

spring and autumn we use the energy completely from our own production. In summer there are of course phases where there can be an excess if there's no truck there at midday, although due to our volume we now already use at least 80, 90 percent of the electricity in the end. A topic that always comes up very prominently in the e-truck theme is the topic of grid connection capacities. The distribution network operators are somewhat overloaded,

when it comes to that. What was your experience like, securing enough power for your location? We were actually able to get everything we wanted. Well that's nice. We're also directly next to the offshore line – from AchsoNord or so. So all these offshore wind farms have their power line right at our location, that's why. And the city or municipality also took care very early of large connection capacities

in the industrial area, so that not only the high-voltage capacity, but also the medium-voltage was correspondingly good. That's why we ultimately decided on a 14-megawatt connection, which we're not really using at the moment though. Currently we're using about 700 kilowatts of it, also because of course we don't want such high peak loads. Even when we have more trucks on it, we simply reduce the charging power in the end to keep peak loads from

getting too high. That makes sense. And you planned everything holistically from the start too – because a mistake many forwarding companies or other companies make is: you get the vehicles and then you notice, oh, the grid connection capacity can't handle it – did you plan that from the beginning? So: now we need solar, now we need battery storage, then we need grid connection of course with transformer and energy management software. Or what was the process for you? We already

thought everything together, always with the view that we can still expand further. That's why we also chose a 4 MW connection. It was clear that we wouldn't need that at the start with 20 trucks, but if we ever electrify 80, 90 vehicles or charge in the depot, we obviously need expansion potential. That's why it's worthwhile to plan a larger connection capacity right away. What was

the calculation basis for that, if you remember? When you have so many charging points – one charging point per vehicle – then you have to think roughly: at 100 vehicles, what do they charge anyway? At the lowest power with 20 kW or – what's the lowest power? I think they can charge at 20 to 40 kW, depending on the model. And then you have, even if you're charging at the lowest, times that by 100

– then that would be roughly, you can think of it like this: 40 kW times 100 is exactly 4 MW. Yes, exactly. Basically, that was also the maximum power we had planned for our first 10 charging stations at the time. In the end, we went down to 300 kW stations though, because with the 400 kW stations we didn't yet know if they would be series production ready when we set them up. So we ultimately went for the 300–

kW columns. At the time, it was actually intended that we could theoretically run the entire charging park at full load in terms of electricity. As I said, we're currently not keeping peak loads that high. And do you also do optimization based on dynamic electricity tariffs when you have such a tariff? Yes, exactly. We already reduce the charging power when we enter more expensive time periods. And that's usually more in the evenings –

the case, so that we can simply load more at night or stretch the charging process more. And then at night we increase the charging power again. Yes, cool. And do you plan to do bidirectional charging? Is that a topic for you? Well, basically it is a topic. I think we'll do a project on that too. But yes, to what extent that ultimately benefits the vehicles, that will still have to be seen. I mean,

we want to use the battery over the entire lifespan of the truck. If of course the battery lifespan is reduced by using it for bidirectional charging, then we would of course have to think about whether it makes sense for us financially. And on the topic of shared charging infrastructure also at the depot – is that something where... that's also a hot topic, to what extent freight companies or other types of companies share infrastructure with each other. Is that a topic that would be relevant for you? Currently it's actually the case

that we only use the infrastructure for ourselves. But that also has something to do with the CSD programme, since the CSD programme provided that the charging infrastructure is not public. But after four years we would be allowed to offer it publicly as well. The idea was to prevent public charging operators from grabbing the subsidy funds, but rather to make sure it really goes to freight companies in the end. Exactly. And do you see that dynamic electricity tariffs at public charging points – that you could also move in that direction to optimize costs

at public charging points, that based on the route and these prices, that this could also be reflected? That's definitely a recurring topic among CPOs, dynamic electricity tariffs. How do you see it? Well, I would actually distinguish between, let's say, drivers who drive all over the place for us, and those who only do regular scheduled routes. So if they're doing a regular scheduled route, then I actually know

pretty much exactly when the driver is where. And then of course I can optimize it so that we agree with the CPO: okay, the driver charges then always at midday when the sun is shining. I think you can integrate that into the daily schedule. With project-based business, that's of course a bit more difficult because those happen ad hoc. But basically I can imagine that there will eventually be new business models that also vary the prices

and especially – the biggest fluctuations are also in these evening times and mornings. You could of course also, by procuring, let's say, 50-kW chargers overnight, charge trucks much more during these time periods, which of course also makes it cheaper again. And if you now want to hear some anecdotes from you in practice – things that didn't go as planned or as hoped with e-mobility, and things that you would

like to have better – if you were now to send a message to CPOs or also to politics, what would you... what comes to mind? Yes, for one thing, of course the legal framework around driving and rest times is still a topic. Because if I free up the charging column so others can charge, that counts as an interruption of the daily rest period. And there would of course need to be some kind of regulation that, let's say,

doesn't punish this positive behaviour from drivers in the end. Exactly. Especially because drivers – so if they take a break in the evening, they don't fall asleep right away, they shower or have dinner first. And when the charging process is done – that does take time, and the charging process might actually be finished before they go to sleep – then they could move their vehicle a bit. It's not like the driver wasn't rested during that time or couldn't enjoy the break time the way they wanted.

I think there should definitely be some kind of adjustment here, because in the end this whole regulation is meant for the drivers. So it's supposed to support drivers so they aren't exploited, so to speak, and so they have enough rest time in their daily lives. And

if of course the regulations make it harder for them to do their work, then it's obviously not in the drivers' interest or doesn't help anyone in the end. That's why we should really think of something else here, especially in this e-mobility area, to adjust it a bit so it makes sense for all sides. I mean, rest times and breaks are important for drivers, also to promote safety on the road and of course to

maintain driver health. But here and there a bit of flexibility is needed, I think, for everyone involved. Then there's the reservation function. That's a topic that's also very hot right now. How do you see the topic? I'm always very... That's similar to this time slot booking. I'm actually against such models. So I always think it's much better through this transparency that I have through the apps and so

already can see. Okay, how many drivers are there, or how many charging spots are still available? That's also always a good indicator of whether I'll find a charging spot right away or not. And I've only experienced it once so far that I had to wait for a charging station to become free.

Otherwise I always got a spot right away. It's also not necessary in the first place, because there are still a lot of spaces available. And secondly, as I said, traffic is so unpredictable. So if there's an accident in front of me, a traffic jam, then I can forget about the reservation anyway. That's why I just don't see it as necessary. Yes, it's supposed to suggest security somewhere, but in the end – yes, I'm not a fan of reservations. Understood. That makes sense. And the topic of megawatt charging. That was also

a hot topic for the e-truck. You showed that it also works with CCS and 350 kW. Do you see that as necessary too? Well, there are certainly a few use cases where that makes sense, with two-driver teams. Yes, if you really squeeze the main charging time into the lunch break, let's say, instead of charging overnight, then that might be a topic. But basically, of course, it's also always a cost question. So do I now

build a completely new infrastructure, which of course is even more expensive and more prone to failure because enormous currents flow through it. Or do I prefer to stick with, let's say, 300 to 400 kW. So if I have comprehensive, well-functioning and stable 400 kW infrastructure, I think I've already gained a lot in the end. And whether another connector or similar is necessary, in addition to CCS – that's ultimately for others to decide. But exactly, so e-mobility works

also without MCS. Nevertheless, it could be, or I think it is, worthwhile to keep a close eye on the topic. And will e-mobility for e-trucks be separated from e-cars? Now that's basically still – do you do that with Milence and other e-truck-dedicated charging stations? How do you see that? Well, I think these modular solutions already make sense to better utilize the infrastructure.

Exactly, and through all these power peaks and fixed costs, there's definitely a reason to share the grid connection between the truck charging park and the car charging park. Because cars are mostly out and about when trucks aren't. Especially on Sundays – I think that's one of the main days for CPOs. And for trucks there's a driving ban, so significantly fewer trucks are on the road. That means I can of course create more homogeneous utilization in the end.

Which of course also contributes to profitability in the end. That's why I don't necessarily see a strict separation as useful, but rather perhaps – well, you could of course also say, okay, you open the truck charging park on Sundays for cars, for example. Or you have a shared power connection that is physically separate but the charging connection itself isn't. Yes. And for you as a company – let's come back to this now, we're in the home stretch. Where will you be in three or five years? If you imagine yourself there now

– where do you want to go? What's your vision? Okay. Well, we want to continue growing and also give other companies the opportunity to make a positive contribution to sustainability. Exactly, so as I said, we're already quite far along when it comes to e-mobility, we've already converted a large part of our fleet, and we're continuing to scale. Exactly, and what else will develop over the next few years – the world is so dynamic. A lot can already

happen. Exactly. And then the keyword: what are the innovations that are on your mind? In everyday life – the keyword AI, OpenAI, autonomous driving. How do you see that? Will autonomous trucking come? In the trucking industry – is that completely unrealistic, or? What are the topics that are on your mind? When it comes to autonomous driving, there are of course still many regulatory hurdles. That means there's always the question: how far will the vehicle really be completely

driverless? Or does someone always have to be there, like in the autopilot in an airplane, who can intervene in an emergency? Exactly, so of course it's relevant, especially for our aging society – many truck drivers who are about to retire now. They'll obviously drop out sometime over the next five to ten years. That means this shortage of new drivers could of course eventually have a broader impact.

But as I said, there are still both technical and regulatory questions open. As far as AI is concerned, AI in logistics will of course play a certain – and overall important – role.

At the same time, of course, with such hype topics in quotation marks, the technology is often somewhat overrated and everything is thrown into this AI topic, which in the end isn't really AI at all, but just linear optimization or something similar. Exactly. So sure, AI somehow has an influence on everyday life and will also have its effects in logistics, especially in the administrative area. But exactly, so I'm quite relaxed about the topic overall.

Exactly, look at what optimization potential there is through AI and similar applications, and then we'll assess the use accordingly, so to speak. Yes, so finally: do you have a message for the listeners that you'd like to share? How can people reach you? Exactly. So I'm active on LinkedIn, among other things. Exactly, otherwise, if you had inquiries, if you also wanted to have something transported electrically – feel free to check out our

website and then contact us. We're always open to new projects. And I thank you for listening. Then many thanks, Nano, also for your commitment. I think, it's incredibly valuable what you're doing right now for electric trucks in Germany and in the world. So yes, hats off and continued success. Yes, thanks for the invitation. And in the end we can't do it alone either. That's why we're always dependent on many factors and

many people. But many thanks for the invitation. With pleasure. Until next time. Until next time. That was Nano Jansen. What's convincing here is less a number than an attitude. Electrification is everyday business, not a special project. In operations that means clear guardrails, simple procedures, calm dispatch. Drivers get scope for shaping their route and charging stops. Charging breaks count as rest time. That also increases acceptance and reduces stress. The biggest challenge lies outside the depot: waiting times at the shipper. Here the customer interface determines productivity. Better loading dock windows, flexible slot planning,

and real accountability for dwell times would show immediate impact – on costs and driver satisfaction. For investments to work, planning certainty is needed. Stable rules matter more than changing subsidy programs, and charging times should not be a disadvantage in driving and rest times. The forward-looking perspective is clear: streamline processes with customers, sharpen load management further, pilot projects like bidirectional charging and use AI where it relieves administration and dispatch. I'm impressed by Nano Jansen's leadership role. And I'm not the only one. Thanks for listening to Smart Charge by RiDERgy. If you enjoyed the episode: subscribe, rate, share. Until next time.

Episode ended.

Episode notes

In dieser Folge von Smart Charge by RiDERgy spricht Claudio mit Nanno Janssen, dem Geschäftsführer in fünfter Generation von Nanno Janssen Logistics – einem der fortschrittlichsten Transportunternehmen Deutschlands, das den Umstieg auf elektrische Schwerlastlogistik vorantreibt. Vom Familienbetrieb, der vor fast 130 Jahren gegründet wurde, hin zu einer Flotte, die auf dem Weg ist, 80 % Elektrifizierung zu erreichen: Nanno berichtet, was es in der Praxis wirklich braucht, um den Fernverkehr zu elektrifizieren. Wir sprechen über die mutige Entscheidung seines Unternehmens, keine Diesel mehr zu kaufen und früh in E-Lkw zu investieren: 58 elektrische Nutzfahrzeuge im Rahmen des deutschen KSNI-Programms – mit Solarstrom, einem 1,3-MW-Batteriespeicher und einem 4-MW-Depot-Netzanschluss. Nanno erklärt, wie sein Team reale Hürden wie Netzanschluss, Fahrerakzeptanz und Lade-Logistik überwunden hat – und warum er überzeugt ist, dass elektrische Lkw bis 2030 die Straßen dominieren werden. Zentrale Themen: - Die Transformation eines Logistikunternehmens in fünfter Generation zum E-Trucking-Pionier - Learnings vom Hochskalieren von 35 → 70 Fahrzeugen und der Planung von 58 E-Lkw mit KSNI-Förderung - Kostenstrukturen, TCO-Insights und warum verlässliche Politik wichtiger ist als Subventionen - Verträge mit großen CPOs und Kostenoptimierung durch dynamische Tarife und eigene PV-Anlagen - Zusammenarbeit mit „Electro Trucker“ Tobias Wagner und Einblicke aus echten E-Langstreckenrouten - Wie E-Mobilität Fahrerroutinen, Wartungszyklen und die Planung der Depot-Infrastruktur verändert Nanno teilt außerdem seine Sicht auf die Zukunft der Logistik – von Shared Depots und Nachtzustellungen bis zur Rolle von autonomen Lkw und KI im Flottenmanagement – und macht deutlich, warum die Dekarbonisierung des europäischen Transports nur gelingen wird, wenn mittelständische Betreiber den Weg weisen.