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Smart Charge · S2 · Episode 2 · 22 February 2026 · 1 hr 16 min

Pierre Rudolph - Fleet & E‑Mobility Lead (Last Mile)

Transcript

Cleaned up from a machine transcript. Translations are machine-generated and may contain errors.

Welcome to the Smart Charge by RiDERgy Podcast. This is Claudio Geyken, founder and CEO of RiDERgy. This is your show to learn about all things energy management and smart charging innovation for electric vehicles and fleets.

Today I'm speaking with Pierre Rudolf, an experienced fleet manager at HelloFresh, about where electromobility in large fleets is really decided – in the energy system behind it. Or, as it was put succinctly: the transformation isn't won in the car, but in the electricity behind it. We're looking at the EMS – energy management system – as an operational tool: tour security, clear cost control per deployment, and scaling across multiple depots and countries. Target vision: automated charging without manual intervention. If people have to make charging decisions, the system is built wrong. It's about standardization, clean data, and reliable charging windows so that

operations run stably every day and can grow. Let's go. Hello, Pierre. Great that you're here today. How are you doing today? Hello, Claudio. I'm doing well. I hope you're doing well too. Yes, I had a good start to the day and I'm looking forward to your invitation. Yes, thanks for accepting it. And let's start with this: what's your background like, so our listeners get a sense of who Pierre Rudolf is. Well, Pierre Rudolf is first and foremost a true Berliner and sits here today

as someone who has lived fleet management for, let's say, almost fifteen years. Fifteen years. Yes, exactly. So I started in 2010, very operationally for a service provider to Audi AG. There I was able to drive forward the digitalization agenda. I was able to lead a special demonstration vehicle pool – vehicles on behalf of Audi AG that could be rented by a specific customer base. And the goal was to transfer these to the customer base. That was a pool of thirty to sixty vehicles, and here it was about conducting vehicle handovers nationwide in coordination with

Audi AG – back then as a project manager. But even during that time it was about gathering first digitalized and operational experience in the form of custom software that we developed. I also already had a CEO there who, in 2011/2012, was very ahead of his time and built software himself – similar to how you do as well. We'll get to that later. Yes, and I really enjoyed that. And with a large corporation in the background, Audi AG, those were

great five, six years that I was able to work there. I can imagine that well. We also work with Audi AG. They're a fantastic customer. Yes, that's right. I read that on your site. I still have good contacts with my colleagues back then, and meanwhile one or two of them have become some of my best friends. During that time I was able to learn a lot operationally – the profession of project manager, all the leadership stuff. That was all very exciting for me back then at the end of my twenties. Cool.

And after that? Then in 2016 I moved into the real estate industry and became the fleet companion for the Grüner Group – the well-known entrepreneur Christoph Groener. I basically started with ten cars. Back then there was an Excel spreadsheet and the procurement manager was handling fleet management on the side, so to speak. And my job was to drive forward the enormous growth that the company was pursuing and implementing in the fleet segment as well. This meant that for me, I had to first

install appropriate fleet management software. Because here's how it was, Claudio: we were getting five, six cars added every week. First we had to capture that and then enter everything into the Excel spreadsheet – that was difficult. And the task was to build up fleet management. It was about integrating damage management. It was about conducting driver license checks in a legally compliant way. And I wanted to represent all of that in a system from the start. I looked at which fleet management software would fit best. And back then, companies like Avros were just getting started. Today they've grown large too. We had a webinar recently.

That's right, I listened to that. Back then just Avros alone, and meanwhile Shiftmove – companies that have come together there and in the meantime have become a large mid-market company. But I had my CEO's trust to be able to use this software. A Swiss company. What is it, what's behind it? Everything cloud-based – it was indeed a cloud-based fleet management software back then, that was very new in those years. But we

were able to help the company Avros grow in a kind of napkin-sketch system with other fleet colleagues. The topics that we saw as important, we could articulate back then – from damage management to checking fines and implementing that whole subject as the centerpiece. That was my big operational task, but it also had a lot to do with digitalization in that organization, where we then had to manage almost three hundred cars within five, six years. It grew that fast. And you learned

how important it is to work with fleet management software that integrates everything – with partners on your side who reliably support you in fleet management, where you basically stand to the side as a conductor and with a team that I had back then, you only coordinate things and of course also monitor them. That's quite clear. I can imagine that. It's enjoyable. And it's also more efficient in terms of costs and time, I'd assume. There

That's precisely why it's important to be able to create a TCO dashboard relatively quickly. I remember my boss at the time saying I need it in ten minutes. I had all the data in the system. And that's when it became clear to me how important it is to have software where you feed in data and then can generate reports within the shortest time. There's also a topic we'll come back to later. No, it's not that simple. But I always say

the data is there and IT has come a long way – even much further now than back then. All data that's once in the system: it's always just about managing it properly, disciplining yourself to enter it, and then bringing it all together. And that was a great time. And that's how we continued to grow. Areos, Shift Move – a great partner, someone I worked a lot with and still have a lot of contact with today. That was basically my role at Grüner Group. And after that you came

to HelloFresh. And before we go into detail – because that should really be the heart of this podcast: HelloFresh and what we did together there. E-mobility was already accompanying you as a topic before HelloFresh. How did it come about that you championed this topic and found it so interesting? The topic of e-mobility came into play at some point. I think it was around 2017, when it was about: Grüner Group was doing very sustainable district development. Sustainable building is the

topic. And then it was clear to me that the fleet should be operated just as sustainably. E-mobility was still pretty much in its infancy. That means we equipped district development and district construction also with initial charging infrastructure. I had a lot of freedom back then from the CEO and I got all the necessary information I needed at the fleet trade show in Düsseldorf – which was also already underway at the time – so we could turn to e-mobility especially in urban areas, meaning routes of

up to 150 km: to already electrify these urban tours. We had initial analyses, we had already calculated initial costs. I had the resources available. And most importantly, I also had the trust to be able to gather first experiences. That's really cool. And it was actually the case that here in Berlin we equipped our headquarters first with charging infrastructure, working a lot with InnoGrid back then. And yes, so the first companies – this Smart Cable, I don't know if you could still remember – Ubitricity.

Ubitricity, exactly. InnoGrid later became Ubitricity – right, they were the first ones I had contact with back then. I know both founders of the company. Totally exciting. They came to us and were also new with this cable billing. How do we handle this with pool vehicles? How do we bill for it? Then it was about electrifying the first employee vehicles. I had a car policy that was oriented towards diesel and petrol vehicles. Then it was about: Okay, let's see which profile fits which driver and

how we can now also bring e-mobility to the employees. Not so easy – they sometimes resist quite a lot, because it's just not familiar. It's new. Right. We started with the e-Golf as a pool car. And then I said: colleague, why don't you take one of these electric cars over the weekend and get your own impression and see how you like it. Because it was always the same arguments – you probably know them too,

Claudio: always range. I drive on vacation, how is that supposed to work? And the fact that you only drive on vacation twice a year and 90 percent of the trips were no problem in terms of range even back then was actually already clear. And so I could keep giving out vehicles. And everyone I gave the e-Golf to back then said afterwards: wow, range and recuperation. And

got a bit of first insights into what's possible with the vehicles' recuperation, and so on. Yes, then I adjusted the car policy accordingly and basically based on the employee's driving profile I said: listen, you drive this much – everything up to 75,000 kilometres over three years you can also drive electrically. We had lease contracts, so 25,000 kilometres per year, 20 to 25. Then it was

about hybridizing the vehicles on the one hand – that was still being subsidized back then – or for the brave ones even electrifying them, with the corresponding tax benefits you have today anyway, but also back then. And those were the first points where we got the first project managers and managing directors in the respective companies moving forward and where I was also very active by showing practical examples and driving opportunities: look, what you can do. Look, how much money you save. And look, how much more quietly and

more environmentally friendly you can move in urban areas. I always say it has to match the driving profile. We have field service employees who drive 90,000 to 100,000 kilometres over three years – that wasn't the right driving profile back then. But I wanted to phase out petrol pretty quickly in favour of the electric model. And in the end we really had 40 percent e-cars and the rest was only diesel and twelve hybrids, that's how

we built up gradually. Yes, very exciting. Yes, so many things that drive you now. I can also agree with that for e-mobility. And for me too, that's the essential driver. It's simply more sustainable. In every sense – you can definitely expose most of the myths that are raised against the sustainability arguments as myths. And then cost efficiency and this noise and other aspects that play into it – it's definitely exciting that e-mobility is coming. And it's actually inevitable that it

will come. I see it that way too. Now let's get to HelloFresh. What led you to HelloFresh? And what was it about? Maybe also as a final point on e-mobility, Claudio. Yes, of course. The topic of charging infrastructure in public spaces was indeed still a problem back then. Where can you charge? You could see very clearly how the charging infrastructure wasn't working perfectly yet. That's clear, right. But when the combustion engine came, not everything ran smoothly right away either. And that's

also a point where I always say: just take a look. I drove all the way to southern France, charged six times and it worked just as well in France as in Germany. And it's this feeling, telling the employee as well – or taking away the fear: just go ahead and try it, and see how it works. This exchange at the charging parks – what you know, Claudio, when you see how people exchanged information back then – and this new thing that

emerges from it. And how often did I put my laptop on the roof and could read one or two emails while charging. If you get your head around it, if you mentally prepare yourself for it, it becomes much easier to deal with. I wanted to bring that up now because it's important. Because if you just go into it, only take in what the media says and generally just repeat what a lot of people say somewhere – one or another person

has never driven an electric car. Then nothing will come of it. But almost every colleague who has driven an electric car and really befriended it mentally – and where it also fits the driving profile – ended up driving an electric car in the end. That's the point. Yes, where there's a will, there's a way. Yes, and – there have been, maybe we should comment on this before we get to HelloFresh – there have been some big

debates about combustion engines again recently. So on the one hand, you have to say: the decision that now 90 % of new sales would be electric cars, becoming 100 % in 2035. So this difference doesn't really make much difference now. Besides, there are many other factors like fleet limits, etc., that also play a role, and especially where we're talking about fleets and vehicle parks. Those are now being tackled even more strictly. So basically: e-mobility will continue to be promoted and shaped by regulation. And as for costs, and that

I also find it very exciting – what we can already tease a bit now and will certainly go into more detail on – whether the acquisition costs of electric vehicles are always getting cheaper, because battery prices, which are the main driver, have fallen extremely and will continue to fall. There's still a lot of innovation possible there, whereas with combustion engines there isn't anymore. And above all, opportunities that arise through energy management during operation, which simply don't exist with combustion engines. At the gas pump you can save at most a

few cents here and there, whereas with electricity you can save quite a lot. And I'm looking forward to diving into these topics right away. But yes, let's talk more about HelloFresh for now, in that sense. Pierre, please tell us. Yes, exactly. So I didn't really change industries. But I switched to HelloFresh at the beginning of 2024, into a completely different company. That's also exciting – from a real estate company or real estate culture to a

dynamic, relatively young company. HelloFresh – founded in 2011, already really big. Operating in 18 countries by now and grew very strongly during the Corona period.

My task was to electrify the last mile. The topic: how does the meal package arrive – I think we don't need to explain what HelloFresh is about in great detail. I think you're also a customer now? Yes, very satisfied customer – now also of Factor. Exactly. It tastes delicious, I also think that's great. Could we maybe leave a discount code in the comments for those who are interested in

HelloFresh? We'll do that. Factor is, as I said, a relatively new product. And in general: if you like to cook, if you don't just want to order food classically, and if you want to cook portioned and sustainably, then this system is quite wonderful. I can only speak from my own experience – I'm not a trained chef – but this cooking together with the portions that were basically already delivered matching the menu, producing that together, makes

just fun. With my children, who are 13 and 15, they participate, my girlfriend participates, and in no time the meal is ready. And then it tastes good too. So this concept, I really like it. And then it came down to how sustainably the product reaches the customer. And here it was about electrifying the last mile in the logistics, so to speak, or converting from diesel to electric drive. And that was a new task for me in the logistics sector.

A very rapidly growing, young team was waiting for me there. And the question was: which system do we use? There were two models – one with our own vehicles and one with service providers – and one in Munich, one in Hamburg. We tested there what worked best for HelloFresh, which model. And then we began to decide with the depots, essentially the depot managers – and also very importantly with the associated service providers who were already driving for HelloFresh – which system would work best for everyone, you have to be clear about that

with the requirement that we would adapt to e-mobility. That requirement also applied to the service provider. But how do we tackle this together? And my first step was very clear: expanding the charging infrastructure at the depots. The challenge here was reaching agreement with the landlord. HelloFresh rents the depots, essentially rents the facilities it needs. And finding a common path here – as a major customer, to develop e-mobility at the location in a future-oriented way for a certain period or

for the period during which you have rented there. Yes, that's not easy at all – so many actors making deliveries for you, then the landlords, it all has to be coordinated. And those are just two of the stakeholders. We'll certainly talk about more. There are significantly more stakeholders. Exactly, Claudio, you're saying it. And that was your responsibility? Well, that was my responsibility. Exactly. So on one hand: what services are involved? That's where it starts. You weren't like with Grüner Group – there we basically built it ourselves, I knew exactly what was going on. And here we rented. And then we had to convince the landlord about e-mobility to some extent and it started again with explanations, though we got mostly positive feedback here. And people recognised how important this part is and how

it felt like they weren't the first to do this. So how many are already driving electrically in the last mile? HelloFresh was a bit later here. And all the clearer was our mandate to supply the large main depots with charging infrastructure in the next one and a half, two years. And the biggest challenge here was first to find out what power was available and then to see: who do you do it with? Who do you bring on board? Initial tenders took place. And what do we want in the end? How

do we want to handle this topic cost-wise? Of course, you have a budget. So you calculate your project through, like everyone responsible in this area does. You discuss it and then you have a sum x available to you. And in that context, it was important for me, in my position and also from the experience of recent years, to find my partners relatively quickly once I had received the landlord's approval in the form of framework agreements and framework contracts. We're talking about the delivery partners. We're talking here about the DSPs

– no, we're talking here first of all about the stakeholders. So even before the DSPs, before the service providers who ultimately drive for us, the focus was really on building charging infrastructure. So the charging partners, so to speak, a power supplier and ultimately RiDERgy as well. You fall into that too. Building a partner network for myself where we all benefit from each other, where we established a framework agreement so we could then systematically execute this project over the next one and a half, two years. That was the case at the beginning of 2024. And then we

travelled across Germany, visited the depots individually, spoke with all the landlords, informed the DSPs, the service providers, about our plans in the early stages, which wasn't easy either. Claudio, imagine you have around 56 service providers out and about in the last mile, and we say: we support you. We know that this is also a financial effort for you, a different kind of effort. But we want to support you. We support you in vehicle procurement. We support you in driver training. If there's a need

for it: how do I drive an electric vehicle? And we can also tell you on a scaled basis how much range we will be driving electrically in future. Because we knew our depots, we could adjust our delivery area accordingly – we made corresponding adjustments in tour calculations – so we could alert our service providers early on to what was coming their way. And that was an important point, Claudio. It's not about saying: in half a year you'll all drive electrically, figure it out. Rather, partners who have been on the road for HelloFresh for a very long time, we tell them what we're planning. There was no going back, but it was done in partnership. And that was fun, but also emotional here and there. You can imagine. You have all nationalities involved somehow. One is Italian, the other from somewhere else. There are mentalities that are simply more emotional. But we managed it. And while we were at the locations, we

checked the conditions with the expansion company, the charging infrastructure expander – that was the company Charge One – and together with the landlord we looked at where and how we would build our charging infrastructure at the site. And that's how it went site by site. We had joint documentation via the cloud. That meant that every stakeholder could see the current status. And that's also important to me: that I'm the one who makes the final decision, but we always move on a level where the current status is visible and

everyone can understand what's being worked on. That was also important for building trust with all stakeholders and service providers, that everyone could see: okay, something is happening at my depot, it's not forgotten, the progress is visible. Because, and that's also important to say: the project ran over months. Things don't happen overnight. It takes months to plan, to coordinate everything, to align it with all parties, to get the landlord's approval, to order charging points, to have them installed. And through the transparency, through the cloud-based documentation, everyone could always see: yes, we're on schedule, or here we need to adjust something.

We also had regular on-site meetings where we discussed the progress, coordinated further steps, and made sure everyone was pulling in the same direction. That was really important for the success of this project. Because at the end of the day, e-mobility transformation is not something one person or one company can do alone. It requires collaboration, trust, and continuous communication with all the stakeholders involved. And that's what we managed to achieve with the HelloFresh project.

we could see the current status, budget, and so on in such a targeted way without constant back-and-forth phone calls. Charge One as the installer. And then it continued: What do we do with the electricity in the end? How can we use the existing conditions? How can we advance Hello Fresh, the depot, electrification over the next 10, 20 years? How can we not just install dumb charging boxes, but how do we use the current possibilities in a completely different way than at the Groener Group from ten years ago – the

current possibilities in the best way possible? Then the company RiDERgy came around the corner. Well, I know them – have you ever heard of them? I think so. And we both got in touch, because it was important to me, just as I already knew from an older company, to find software that makes it easy to evaluate data. Hello Fresh is a very data-driven company, which is also correct. That means we have high investment costs, but ultimately we also want to be able to simply determine in operations: What benefit do we get

out of it? And where are the advantages and disadvantages? Where can we optimise? And that's clearly about electricity optimisation. And maybe you, Claudio, can now briefly explain from your perspective how we came across each other and what possibilities you currently see at Hello Fresh – as the final conductor, so to speak, or director in this area – in your role here. Yes, I'd be happy to. I think you've just shown well how complex it is with

such a wide variety of stakeholders, from the landlord to the person making the delivery. But also the person installing the charging station – they usually work with various different systems – and then the energy stakeholders. It's not that simple. And we haven't even mentioned the vehicles yet: that those who lease or rent vehicles are also an important stakeholder. Let's just talk about that briefly too – yes, we can just do that

right now. Exactly, because that's an important point. That's right, yes, we definitely need to address that. Because that's ultimately e-mobility – it's even in the word, it's really about the mobile aspect. And that's exactly where we know it's not so trivial to deal with as a fleet or fleet manager, with so many topics to manage. And we also specialised in bundling all these systems together and having a holistic

system: on the one hand for monitoring and data evaluation and then of course also for optimisation, so you not only know what you should do, but can also intervene immediately. And there are various things that can already be mentioned where a depot charging system is ideal for us. That's why we also specialised in the last mile. And that's how we came into contact, because I thought Hello Fresh would probably be electrifying. And then we talked and saw that it was a perfect fit at exactly the right time, to ensure charging operations in daily operations – on the one hand, that it works reliably. Because with the limitations you have – we've already mentioned some: range, electrical installation, grids – it all has to work. Reliably, so the routes can be driven. And the software ensures that you can manage this well, that the electrical installation doesn't become overloaded for example, and on the other hand, that costs are optimised, in particular

through dynamic electricity tariffs. Many don't know it, but there are electricity tariffs where the price changes every 15 minutes. Germany is one of the most interesting countries in the world where you really have very large fluctuations, which are increasingly influenced by renewables. That means when there's a lot of wind and sun, it's also very cheap. And you have enough time at such a charging point at Hello Fresh to optimise the charging processes accordingly. And then do much

more. In the energy system, as I've already teased, you can do a lot. And there – up to, and this is a very, very sexy topic – bidirectionality or Bidi, where you can also use the batteries of the vehicles as an additional asset and also make money from it. So as a pioneer, it's not just about reducing costs, but actually generating income sources. Which, I think, is a completely different way of thinking and very exciting. And of course you also need

software that's able to know: When does it make sense now? When are prices high and how much time do the vehicles actually still have? And that's what RiDERgy does. And we want to enable Hello Fresh as well as possible for this. Yes, that's how it started. Claudio, I mean, we planned it through in theory. Yes, yes. I still remember when we sat together and how we already planned back then, with our partner from

Charge One, Stefan Poppe. That was also very important – a wonderful partnership. Or also with Lichtblick, you can certainly mention that, that's essentially our electricity partner – to create such a system. That's something I already knew, but now to approach it so professionally in this specific topic, especially in the last-mile area, with the information we had. What perhaps made it a bit easier for us is that we knew: The vehicles are always parked with us overnight at the

depot.

Depot. We can plan. Our tours run between 08:00 and, let's say, 16:00, and in the evening we still have 1, 2, 3, 4 more tours. And that's where we could start planning. Via a system that you provide us, where we could also train in advance at 12 charging points to implement it in practice. That was my direction to you. Because of course: in the end it has to work operationally, because the depot manager must not notice what we're doing here. It has to continue as before.

It's best not to talk about crisis scenarios, but here in the podcast. Yes, exactly, that's the best approach – so not talk at all, or if you do, then in the podcast and not in crisis management. That would be the right way. But we piloted that here too. In the first few weeks we tried things out. And as it always is: there are always problems, but we could solve them and we're still solving them now. And it's simply very exciting to observe, to see how

it actually works. The investment costs you have initially, how they gradually amortize themselves. And we amortized that together through programs. And I already know now, if it continues like this, when the costs at which depot will amortize and when we might finally be able to earn money with PV or bidirectional charging in the future. And that brings great joy when all the parts fit together. And that was the exciting part – back to the topic, my favorite topic: digitalization combined with

e-mobility, combined with last-mile delivery, presenting it that way and in partnership with the electricity provider, in partnership with the infrastructure operator so to speak. And we'll get to the vehicles – exactly. So it's that we have the right vehicles, or rather very suitable ones: it's that the DSP rents vehicles. Here too we've concluded a major framework agreement with Sixt car rental – wonderful collaboration, driven forward over recent months – where we say: the service provider rents from you and essentially operates the

vehicles. This allowed us all together to offer an economically attractive proposition to our DSPs, and we say: rent from one. And we support you. So you have to picture it this way, Claudio: every service provider has to go through rigorous onboarding just to be allowed to deliver for HelloFresh. And once they're in our system, we maintain a very partnership-based working relationship. And that's how I imagine it as well when you work with a major car rental company a

The framework agreement means we also bring another stakeholder into the boat here, who works on behalf of HelloFresh. The service provider remains independent in its own role, but we provide support. And the challenge here was with the vehicles, essentially connecting these vehicles to your system to advance monitoring as effectively as possible and also to give the drivers and service providers behind it the security that every vehicle is charged at 06:00 in the morning. That was the requirement: the vehicles are parked

at the charging point by 18:00 at the latest, and by 08:00 all vehicles must be charged so that the supervisor on site in the morning doesn't have any problems and all cars are charged. Maybe you, Claudio, can explain our beginnings from your perspective – how it feels for you to get multiple vehicles up and running in your system, and what challenges that represents for you. Yes. So we try to onboard the vehicles as cost-efficiently and time-efficiently as possible. And we learned from that too. And I thought it was great with Sixt, that they collaborated well with us. That certain vehicles simply didn't have a telematics unit, and that made it harder for us, of course, to get access to the data. And then Sixt was very willing to also swap out the vehicles. Of course there are existing contracts, you have to wait a bit for timing, but then you would have, so to speak, the right conditions to get that data and even to send signals to the vehicles, which is also important in the course of

energy management. And I thought it was great that the coordination work you always enabled for us – with Sixt, with Charge One and others – and of course the whole team at HelloFresh worked out really well, but also the vehicle manufacturer, the OEM in the end. So that was a Maxus vehicle – you can mention that – that should have brought the prerequisites. Exactly, that's what you need for the system. Yes. Maxus. Yes, funny anecdote. We were of course – first we had to understand what the problems were, and then it was about what the current status was. And Sixt could only know so much. Then you had to go to the OEM. And since I also speak Chinese – and with China... That's right, you speak Chinese. Yes. Did you approach it in Chinese, or? Yes, actually. There's no WhatsApp in China, it's WeChat. And that was also very useful, because ultimately I was networked all the way through to the engineer in

China who was responsible for the issue. That's crazy. And he told me: unfortunately, these vehicles, we can't solve the telematics unit issue. But the latest generation would be capable of doing it. That didn't help us in this case, but at least we had a good answer and knew what to do. But here again, Claudio: we tried, we approached it. And that's what counts in the end – ask the manufacturer, reach out to them. And ultimately

that's what counts. We try, we're proactive. And that's what matters at the end of the day – to question the manufacturer, to reach out to them. And ultimately

that's the approach that leads to solutions.

it wasn't the right vehicle for us because we need a certain range – 250 kilometers in the future. And so the company decided on a different model. This model now fits our structure. And these models – now you can also say – that's the T7, the electric transporter with the telematics unit.

Here we have the ranges we need. We also need net ranges. We're talking about WLTP. We're talking about winter, summer, and we need a safe 200 kilometers. And with this model, depending on driving style, of course that plays a role. We offer training courses. But the 200 kilometers, if we achieve that – even a bit more – I'm confident about that. And these vehicles, you know the models. The telematics units are included, which you need, in combination with the dynamic electricity tariff. This topic is now becoming increasingly

more prominent at HelloFresh. We've expanded almost all our main depots in Germany – in Munich, Hamburg, Berlin, Essen, Düsseldorf, Frankfurt. Everywhere in the major cities we're connecting more and more. You have to picture it like this: the charging infrastructure is being built. And you, Claudio, then receive, so to speak, the final information that the charging infrastructure has now been installed and approved by the grid operator. Keyword grid operator – do you have a few stories about that? Because many people unfortunately don't have that quite on their radar. Always one of

the key challenges in such a project. Grid operator was a challenge for me, Claudio. I can really tell you that. I've already experienced a few years, also in a previous company. You have a timeline, and you can basically throw it overboard because you're dependent on the grid operators. And it's different in every federal state. There's Westnetz and Munich, in Bavaria you have yet another player who

operates and governs there, so to speak. 800 grid operators in Germany, plus 800 plus. Well, not so many – even the smallest municipality sometimes has its own. And then you go there and say what you plan and what you want. You want to build infrastructure, you're also upgrading a depot and planning everything. And then you go ahead and you don't get any response at all at first. Or rather, it works through powers of attorney. Our installer, in this case the company Charge One, received all powers of attorney from HelloFresh.

And then it comes down to the fact that there's no reaction at all initially. Creating an offer takes – then sometimes we already have the infrastructure in place and haven't even received an offer yet. About what we're allowed to do and what we aren't. We sometimes already went ahead with pre-financing. We didn't want to wait until we had almost received the permit. Or until we knew, when it came to a power increase or where we needed a capacity upgrade, we went ahead anyway and already

charging infrastructure installed. And not keep customers waiting. To make this more tangible, because maybe someone who hasn't had that experience yet like you do, might not see as clearly what's happening there – maybe we can throw out a few numbers: what kind of power you had at such a depot and what you needed, or based on the charging points you have. So, we had – we planned to build AC charging infrastructure. That means

up to 11 kW. That's what we calculated beforehand. That's what we need to charge the vehicles at night. Here it wasn't about installing DC fast chargers, but we need – we have on average 20 charging points per location – 11 kW times 20, and accordingly we need the power to control the charging of the vehicles through load management. And once we knew from the landlord how much power was available at the depot, it was usually the case that we didn't

have enough power available, or there could potentially be disruptions. So, it was about expanding the power. And that can't be done without the grid operator. Here we had to make inquiries: what are we allowed to do? What's available? What are the requirements? And that can only be done through the local grid operator. In Hamburg we also installed fast chargers. That was even more complicated. Then when it came to building a transformer, creating a transformer station – anyone who's done that somewhere before

knows what the costs are for building such a transformer station, with civil engineering work. And that's exactly the point: coordinating these civil engineering works through the executing company, but also ultimately with the grid operator, who also shows up with civil engineering work when it's needed outside the depot. That means we had locations where we had to bridge 30, 40, 50 metres due to the grid expansion that we weren't allowed to carry out ourselves.

That means our construction measures were planned, but had to be coordinated with the construction measures of the grid operator. And that's when the fun really started. How long, and still no confirmation. And I had to regularly get involved in the communication as the end customer. Sounds stupid, but I had to, because our authorized company wasn't getting any feedback, say: excuse me, Charge One company, we're the executing company here, or we just want to

install the infrastructure. Why isn't this moving forward? And I really did have some nice conversations with the authorities. Oh yeah, we'll take care of it, let me check on that again. So, this bureaucratic machinery then runs up against our drive to make things happen. We want to succeed. We want to move forward. That then runs up against this German bureaucracy here and there. That was difficult for me, to be honest. I'm also not the most patient person. I want to

make progress. And if the authorized company doesn't even get a response, and if someone gets sick again – then the project drags on. And I had my schedules. I also had the trust of my supervisors, my manager, that it would all work out. But you have your own drive. We both, Claudio, had our plans: When are we going to go live? And then there were holidays, then there was

something else again. So we had standstills, especially in North Rhine-Westphalia in Essen. The project there – the charging infrastructure stood there for half a year, three quarters of a year, without any progress. And those are challenges. Dear colleagues, you should definitely keep that in mind, and you have to factor those in. I already factored them in time-wise, but partly not enough. And when it does run, everything works fine. Meanwhile, we've stayed more or less on schedule. But it's exhausting,

to be taken out of your creative momentum when you're not really being noticed or don't even get responses. That's what I don't like about it. Still, you explained a bit how you dealt with it. And can you recommend that too – that you try to engage in dialogue, always try to engage in dialogue, and in the end, even if you have the authorization, speak directly to the grid operator? I can recommend that to anyone. Go with an email or even

call and say: HelloFresh, or whoever the corporation behind it is, or as a company: We want to move forward here. The application has been sitting with you for two months now, or even just one month. Seek dialogue, talk with your colleagues. One or another clear email certainly has to go out, because otherwise it wouldn't have worked – and then it did work. Now we've built over 100 charging points in a year and a half. And there will be more. And it all

worked out. But the differences – or let's say the procedures from state to state within Germany – was an experience. And that will, I think, in the coming years – we talked about that earlier, Claudio – from 2030 onwards there are new regulations for fleet operations. And here there will certainly be some adjustments with the grid operators too. Yes, there is also – I have to say, I'm not that deep in the details, but I'm following

that with great interest. There's this so-called first-come-first-served principle. That's been the procedure so far. And you notice that you're hitting limits when it comes to the grids, because there are data centers that, especially driven by AI, all want to go online now. There are battery storage systems – that was a huge boom in recent years and is still being promoted to cushion the volatility of renewables. And of course the whole topic of electric mobility with the

charging infrastructure, where also quite different – when you talk about electric trucks – quite different, larger power requirements come up. And to manage that, you also have to give the grid operators their due: It's not that simple. Nonetheless, if one regulates that better now – and they are working on it, as I said – so that projects like HelloFresh's, which we're discussing here, are prioritized more seriously compared to others. In the battery storage segment, for example, there are some where they just try to make an entry to be in the queue at all, without actually having the money or a serious project, a customer approval at all. And grid operators are working on simplifying, improving, digitalizing and also prioritizing processes, as you say. That's the point: What's behind it? Who has what priority? That's the point. Keyword trucks – "middle mile" is such a topic that at HelloFresh too, I think, will be electrified in the future. We're already working on that, now also

to get into the planning. HelloFresh is strongly represented in Europe, then two countries in the USA. We're in the USA, Australia – yes, so all the way to Australia. New Zealand, I think, as well. Represented everywhere. Different rules apply there – yes, those are different procedures, different ranges too. The USA operates differently than Australia. But let's say, within Europe we're already quite similar. Especially the Benelux region – Holland, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg and also Belgium – there they already drive 80,

90 percent electrically, with cooling too, and very much. I'm in close exchange with colleagues there, and we look at what we do. They still work with fast chargers because they operate in two shifts, and we can charge at night. In the end, it's important to see: Which system fits best? And that's the complexity behind it – to see what fits best and to discuss it with all stakeholders. Get everyone on board, see how

it works best operationally, but also clearly economically. We're all business enterprises, and we can't put hundreds of thousands of millions of euros in just to present ourselves with sustainability and say how great we are. In the end, every company is set up economically so that it should generate returns. And that's what it's about in the end. And that's why what we're doing here, Claudio – this optimization, recognizing it through the dashboard: What have we spent? What are we saving at

this point. That's the economic aspect that we need to integrate into all of this, and that's where smart charging and load management really add value for us – where we can actually optimize and save money. That's the whole point for us at HelloFresh.

End? – an important point. Exactly. We've talked a lot about the challenges in setting things up. But fortunately, you don't have to do that setup constantly. Once you've set it up, then it's just about connecting things in between. That's the key point, because then the real fun starts, when you want to optimize per-kilometer pricing and then optimize the company over many years. In operations, you can really do a lot with e-mobility, which also drives me personally – that we

manage not only sustainability in the sense of environment and climate, but also sustainability in the sense of financial sustainability – and that an economy that is efficient in operations is also a competitive advantage for Germany, generally in Europe – that we manage to really reduce per-kilometer costs in operations to the point where it almost approaches zero, if you can achieve that. And I think most people are not yet aware of this opportunity that you

have. These prices that fluctuate so much, they make that possible. And this green energy that exists in abundance at certain times of day, it means that you sometimes even get paid to take on this electricity. You can't even imagine that. And these batteries in the vehicles – the vehicles sometimes just sit there – you can make use of that. And the grids need to be stabilized et cetera, without going too deep into the details. There

you can make money. And we started and implemented a very innovative project together. And I'm delighted if we do much more of that and if the entire European economy manages this transition, also from this economic perspective. That's exactly the decisive point – not just to boast about it, but to see the whole package. And I can only tell you: we sketched and scaled the topic on paper, as we mentioned at the beginning. And now I'm seeing more and more how that works in actual operations – with the occasional hiccups that we've had, we have to be very clear about that – but we're expanding on those and learning from them. It's just fun, I mean to see the electricity price changing every 15 minutes. And in the end, it's also a plannable thing. We have depots where we charge around 800, 900 up to 1,000 kWh per week – now in the AC range – we

charge there on average with 20 charging points. But then we also have depots where we only charge 400–500 kWh. The e-vehicles aren't ready there yet, and to evaluate that with the data that we're increasingly pooling together – to scale that up, so to speak, to additional locations – that's just exciting. And we could see how to proceed from there. And I can only recommend to all my colleagues to take a look at

what's possible, and feel free to approach it via a pilot – just try one location with 34 charging points first. Problems always exist with all new growing technologies; they're not immediately perfect. That comes with the territory. But of course you tackle it when there's trust and the partnership has a goal in sight. Then it's a pleasure, and economically too. And what also gave me pleasure in the

collaboration was being able to respond to your needs – when you say: "Okay, I'd like the software to be this way" or "I need these data points" – and then we develop that together. I find that really exciting too. With software systems that are very established, like Google or Microsoft – who actually listens to you as an end user about exactly how you need the software? But that's kind of like it was originally with Avrios. We're sitting here together now, and

I say, Claudio, it would be nice if we could do weekly evaluations, per charging point. And then you sit with your developers in the background, and we make sure that we – like back then with Vopark software – create this dashboard to get the information. Because it's created by you yourselves, possibilities arise that we need to work economically and – even more importantly – to operate. It's no good if the vehicles aren't charged in the morning. It's

no good if we don't have the evaluations quickly at hand – then it doesn't work. Your final part, so to speak, is to deliver the data, bundle everything and provide it to HelloFresh. That creates a kind of simplicity that you don't feel in the operational process and shouldn't. In the beginning, we still had that here and there – we're still working on it – but we've already made good progress, and I have a very good feeling that

we will with everything that's still to come. You mentioned that: PV, bidirectional charging. So our vehicles are parked there at night. In the future, we can supply our depots with energy, feed it back in. We can sell energy back to the grid operator. So all these possibilities that this topic offers us. And the more vehicles or the more charging points we tailor to this project, the more economically interesting it becomes, of course. And what I'm observing a lot on the market is

that many systems are still quite separate. So the charging software can maybe give you a few insights into the charging points and the charging processes, but no real intelligence – and especially no interplay with the fleet and what needs the fleet has and what telematics data or route planning the vehicles have respectively. And then there are all the energy system data, that's separate again. And that's really the key lever: when you network these complete systems together, add intelligence, so that you can actually act and charge reliably. And

das ist genau das, was uns RiDERgy mit seiner Technologie ermöglicht.

That's what I'm passionate about too – making sure fleet managers understand this and recognize this added value for themselves. So what we're doing now is we've already brought this project into operations, including with the power supplier and the dynamic electricity tariff. These are the costs that we're paying monthly – we make them available to RiDERgy and they're being utilized. And another interesting topic: we want to take the costs that Lichtblick provides us with – all of that is now going into

practice. Yes, I'm curious to see how this topic will develop further and how we'll progress. And for you too, Claudio – as I said, it's not about painting everything in a rosy light here, but it is what it is. I'm passionate about the topic. And there are topics that sometimes don't work out. But when it does work, it's still really good to work with a partner. That was Charge One, that was Lichtblick, and also RiDERgy. Claudio,

absolutely. We've communicated openly about this topic from the start. What I ultimately want to say is: building a partner system – and relatively early on in a project, you should speak the same language, be able to communicate well with each other on a partnership level. You can even grab a beer after successfully completing a project, but the next day you still have to work on it with discipline. Achieving that and building it that way – that was a project

that we managed over the last eighteen months. I think that will bear more fruit in the future. And you continue to grow with RiDERgy. We've discussed other interesting points as well. Our charging tower project was really exciting too. You know people from the trade shows. And you're here on the podcast. And yes, I think we'll probably tackle one or another project together in the future as well. And speaking of the future:

So what's next for you? For me, things aren't continuing at HelloFresh for now. I had a fixed-term contract that ends at the end of February. The project was designed that way and has been implemented, you could say. Of course, we would have liked to expand the topic regionally by now. But HelloFresh is realigning itself economically, and unfortunately that doesn't fit into this year's plans to continue there. So what's next for me? I'd either go back into a company in a leadership role somewhere

and advance the topic further, or make myself available as a consultant in that field. In the end, I don't care what title goes with it – what I want is to work in the projects I've had the privilege to execute in the past, as a fleet manager and also as a mobility manager. And that's also a topic: bike leasing and all of this car sharing business. I was able to learn all of that at Grüner Group too. And I've been fortunate to gather such a broad spectrum of experience over the last few years that now I'm

looking to work as a consultant somewhere or to take on another leadership position in the field. I really enjoy working on this. The topic is important to me. And I'm so glad that over the last nearly two years I've been able to learn so much and work with so many partners, and now I'm looking forward to this year and seeing what comes. Yes, I'm curious. I definitely know from our collaboration that you always act with

passion. And that brought me a lot of joy, to work on this project with you too. And I'm confident that you'll find something that fulfills you and where you'll put all your experience and heart into it. I'm also curious whether we might work together again sometime, maybe in e-mobility again. We've already achieved so much together. I think it would be cool if we could even push it further. I'd be happy about that. I'd be happy if we could maybe do one or another

podcast with colleagues as well – maybe as a roundtable. We see each other regularly at the trade shows anyway. LogiMAT is usually the trade show where I'm present at least. People know each other, you know your colleagues. And especially from an operational perspective, you could approach the topic with more colleagues. I could imagine that we might have a grid operator at the table at some point, so we could bring the entire chain of development

of such a project or all the stakeholders involved in such a project to the table, and everyone can bring their own experience to share regularly on the matter and give tips to one another or receive tips. I think that makes a lot of sense. We already have over 30 episodes by now. I've also had some exciting other guests on the podcast, for example the founder of ChargeCloud, who developed the ChargeOne

software, and many others from the mobility world. And then I think it would make sense to explore the idea you have. Gladly. Yes, if you want guests who come to mind for you based on this episode, we can certainly take them into account. Feel free to reach out to me. Very gladly. And in general, Claudio, I listened to your introductory podcast. You speak so many languages. How is that for you? Would you now be able to expand internationally? Is anything planned? Definitely. So, as you mention: I speak nine languages fluently. Yes, that sounds like bragging, but he can really do it. I had a bit of luck early on growing up trilingual, through my parents, who spoke German, Italian, and French. And fortunately, e-mobility doesn't end at the German border. And there are

opportunities there

many countries that are also doing a lot. We have exciting projects that we're working on now and will work on, certainly in Europe and elsewhere. As a trend, let's say: France will certainly see a lot coming in the coming time. But we also have large partners where it could potentially go to over 20 countries. I'm curious to see how it goes. The software for energy management – clearly there are certain conditions you would need to have. One

dynamic electricity tariff is always ideal, we prioritise such countries. But many issues like limited electrical installation capacity really apply everywhere there are cables and charging stations. That's where we can deploy our software. So it means: let's see how the journey continues – from Berlin out into the world. Exciting, very exciting. And you already have the first operational projects in hand, so to speak. Yes. And then you can build on that. Yes, if I now want to continue learning languages – a different topic.

Quick one, Clau. Yes, is that something? What do you recommend? I mean, clearly. There are apps you can use. Now there's also AI that talks to you. I've heard that. Supposedly very cool. So you have a conversation with an AI bot. Even better than Duolingo and all that. If I now... I think Spanish is pretty cool somewhere, and English – clearly, needs to be expanded. Do you have a recommendation to wrap up?

I have a thousand tips. I'm very enthusiastic about language learning, which apparently comes easy. I've had certain learning curves. When you have enough experience – like right now with e-mobility: you get the second project and the third project implemented relatively faster and easier. I'd also say with language learning: you learn by doing. You speak – if you want to speak, you should speak. I know it always feels very unfamiliar and you feel a bit ashamed when

you can't really speak properly at first. But it always feels like a little baby learning to deal with uncertainty. And you have to get through that. You just have to be clear with yourself: I have to tackle it. And that would be my core tip. So no fear, just get started. And then you have funny experiences and grow from your mistakes. But with AI now, right? With AI?

Exactly, I use AI myself too. I actually learned my languages more before the AI era, but I do use AI actively now. For the languages I want to improve more – for example, Swedish is the weakest of my languages – I've set the AI to Swedish. Sometimes I chat with it or use voice. And the cool thing is: AI knows all the languages in the world. So if you can't think of a word,

you just say it in German – it understands you. And then you can still say: how would I say that in Swedish? I find you learn much faster that way, much more efficiently nowadays. So I would definitely recommend using AI when learning languages. Okay. That's a huge advantage you have, being in the country to speak it. Of course. Probably still works best. Yes, travelling there. That's difficult, unfortunately that's not always an option. But yes,

we've definitely covered a lot of topics now. If your listeners want to learn more, or want to get in touch with you, or maybe you have a message you want to share at the end. Feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn, I'm happy to connect – or if someone thinks they could imagine working with me in the future, please get in touch. I'm open here and looking at several options right now. But one thing

is clear: I simply enjoy it, I always like working, and this topic has been occupying me for a long time. And yes, I'm looking forward to The Fleet, which happens again in March. I don't know, Claudio, will you be there? I'd have to check, I'm not 100% sure yet. And then you meet the colleagues again and exchange ideas. I think that's such an event once a year where you can really exchange with all the stakeholders.

That's basically our trade show. But there's also a lot of exchange on LinkedIn in other areas. And yes, we can't avoid the e-mobility topic. In my opinion, the topic is settled, it's also politically set. Other drive types keep getting discussed. But e-mobility is just scalable and mass-market capable. That's always a topic where I say: yes, sure there are hydrogen cars, but they're just not mass-market viable. I drove a hydrogen car 15 years ago.

But it's about: what is mass-market producible? And right now – e-mobility started maybe 10, 15 years ago. And yes, not everything is going great and there are problems. Yes, but that's always the way with a drive type that's emerging somewhere new. And yes, economically there are problems here and there. But we're catching up very, very strongly here. And I don't know if you've heard – I think Germany is now the second largest EV manufacturer after the Asians. So

VW has caught up very, very strongly. The ID.7 is currently the best-selling model. Tesla is falling a bit behind right now. That will be difficult. So what was missed is now being caught up more and more, more strongly – on top of all the other challenges the automotive industry certainly had in recent years. But a lot has happened here and a lot more will happen. And one last thing: the more you resist the topic, the more difficult it becomes

yes, I believe, will be the way to move forward in the industry in the future. Because wherever electric mobility fits the profile, it will happen. Yes. And I also wanted to thank you, Pierre, for your really enthusiastic collaboration. It was always fun. You're definitely giving it everything, every second. You don't find that everywhere. As an entrepreneur who works with many people, I can definitely say that many companies unfortunately lack this energy from

their employees. And I didn't sense that with you, quite the opposite – a unique energy. And I also think, for those who might be interested now, electric mobility as a topic: there are so many interesting, exciting trends that you might not even have on your radar. An anecdote that comes to mind: ten years ago, I think around 2016, 2017, people said there would be 500 new electric models by 2025. That was last year. And I thought to myself: 500 – that can't possibly

be. There were only a dozen or so models on the market, if that. And we achieved that. And if you think about how quickly these things are developing – that was ten years ago. Now in the coming ten years: if you miss the train now or miss the car, you'll definitely fall behind. It's like with AI right now. So, as we also started – we're there, and it's happening faster. Exactly the same

thing was the case 15 years ago. With electric mobility we're now at this building block. And yes, thank you, Claudio, for the kind words. And I can only return them, without us now flattering each other here – that's never really my style. But I can say that it's always been important to me to approach this topic on an equal footing. And your motivation, your intelligence behind the whole thing – you don't find that everywhere either. And how you, how you approach the

thing with our partner, with Stephan from Touch One, with Lichtblick's Rolf, who supported us so to speak, who was always happy to help us – that's how this whole project has grown so wonderfully and will continue to grow. I wish you now for your project, for RiDERgy, many successful moments in the future and that your project gets implemented the way we've already done it operationally here and continues to progress. And especially the topic of bidirectional. Maybe we'll

do a separate podcast on that too. In the future that will give you many opportunities. And I'm pretty sure, Claudio, that we'll work together in one capacity or another in the future. Yes, thank you very much for the conversation. Three insights from my conversation with Pierre: Electricity beats speculation. The business case rarely tips at the battery, but at the energy setup. Prices, grid charges, connection capacities and processes decide. Transparency plus control: pre-park tools show what is. Impact only happens with active control through EMS and automated charging decisions.

Transparency alone solves no problems. Scaling means simplifying: uniform data, fixed charging windows and clear interfaces with partners reduce complexity and make rollouts reproducible. Key takeaway: treat energy as a controllable production factor, build charging so it works automatically, and use data to reliably reduce operating costs. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the podcast, leave a good rating and share the episode. Until next time.

Episode notes

Episode Überblick In dieser Episode sprechen wir mit Pierre, einem erfahrenen Fuhrparkverantwortlichen, der den Weg von Premium-Automobilprojekten bei Audi über die Digitalisierung großer Flotten bis hin zur Elektrifizierung der Last-Mile-Logistik bei HelloFresh gegangen ist. Pierre schildert offen, wie anspruchsvoll es ist, E-Mobilität dort einzuführen, wo Fahrzeuge jeden Morgen zuverlässig einsatzbereit sein müssen – und warum Ladeinfrastruktur, Netzanschluss und Partnersteuerung über Erfolg oder Misserfolg entscheiden. Wichtige Themen, die wir behandeln: Vom Hotelkaufmann zum Fuhrparkleiter mit über 15 Jahren Erfahrung Premium-Fahrzeugpools bei Audi und frühe operative FahrzeugübergabenDigitalisierung des Fuhrparks: von Excel zu Avrios und datenbasierten Dashboards Erste Schritte der Elektrifizierung: E-Golf, ID. Buzz Cargo und Fahrprofilanalyse HelloFresh-Logistik: Mutter-, Mikro- und Satellitendepots im DACH-Raum Warum AC-Ladeinfrastruktur strategisch sinnvoll war (Standzeiten, Planbarkeit). Aufbau von Ladeinfrastruktur als Mieter: Vermieter, Laufzeiten, Investitionsrisiken Zusammenarbeit mit Infrastruktur- und Backend-Partnern (u. a. ChargeOne) Die größte Hürde: Netzbetreiber, Genehmigungen und föderale UnterschiedeLastmanagement und begrenzte Netzanschlussleistung Warum dieses Gespräch wichtig ist Pierre zeigt sehr klar: Elektrifizierung ist kein Fahrzeugprojekt, sondern ein Energiesystem-Projekt. Erfolgreich wird sie nur, wenn Ladeprozesse automatisiert sind, Kosten transparent bleiben und operative Teams sich nicht täglich mit dem Laden beschäftigen müssen. Für Fuhrpark- und Logistikverantwortliche ist diese Folge eine realistische Anleitung, wie E-Mobilität im Last-Mile-Bereich tatsächlich skaliert – mit Geduld, Partnern und konsequentem Systemdenken. Passend zur Episode, hier geht’s zu den Gutscheinen: Factor: ⁠https://www.factormeals.de/plans?c=FIH-UGPAQR5DURTP&plans_ab=true&utm_campaign=notification&utm_medium=clipboard&utm_source=freebies⁠ Hellofresh: ⁠https://www.hellofresh.de/freebox/MzYxNDI1ODMyLTAtNC0yLURF