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Smart Charge · 14 May 2025 · 54 min

Ep. 12: Einfach selbst Energieversorger werden – Florian Henle über Polarstern, Purpose und die Energiewende - Wirklich

Transcript

Cleaned up from a machine transcript. Translations are machine-generated and may contain errors.

Welcome to the Smart Charge by RiDERgy Podcast. This is Claudio Geyken, Founder and CEO of RiDERgy. This is your show to learn about all things energy management and smart charging innovation for electric vehicles and fleets.

Welcome to a new episode of Smart Charge. Today I'm taking you to Munich, right into the office of an energy supplier that does many things differently: Polarstern. I came across Florian Henle and his team when I was searching for energy suppliers in Germany that really think consistently sustainably, innovatively, and entrepreneurially. What I found is a company that not only impresses with 100 percent renewable electricity and renewable gas, but is also a true practitioner of the energy transition – with tenant electricity models, hydrogen projects, and intelligent charging infrastructure. Florian is co-founder and CEO of Polarstern.

In our conversation, he tells how he founded it together with his wife, why they consciously decided against venture capital funding and built Polarstern completely bootstrapped, and why they ultimately just became energy suppliers themselves. But now directly into the conversation, recorded on site at the Polarstern office in Munich. Okay, Florian, it's great that we can be here and that you can welcome me here in the office, right in the middle of Munich. How are you doing today? Good, the sun is shining, you're here,

Claudio, so it works out. Great. Yes, as I always like to start: could you give our listeners a bit of background about who you are? You can talk as much as you like before we really dive into the topics. Yes, let me try to get to the point nicely, because when people always talk so much about themselves, it often gets very, very long. But yes. So I'm the founder of Polarstern. And I'm also a happy father of three

boys, and that's been true for both the boys and Polarstern for fifteen years now. So my first son was born at the same time as Polarstern, the same year – two babies at once. Exactly, two babies at once. And both are developing excellently, which is also nice. Yes, and as for my background, maybe a bit more: I'm a business economist. I studied international business administration in Cambridge and in Landshut, and then first worked in Switzerland. I helped build a cleantech startup there and

after eight years – long-distance relationships got to be too much – and family was calling. So I came back to Munich, where my wife had been the whole time. Are you from Munich too? I'm not from Munich. I grew up in northern Bavaria. But my wife had been here for many years already. I spent many years commuting between Switzerland and Munich, and at some point it was enough. And yes, then I got the chance, through friends, to get into this founding energy scene,

you could say. It's relatively strong in Munich. You don't really know that. There's a strong founder scene, and especially a very energy-heavy founder scene. And yes, that's essentially how I came to Polarstern too. I got to know my co-founders and everything else is history. Interesting. And how was it with your first startup? Can you tell me a bit more about how you came to that, before the very first founding? Exactly, that was in Switzerland. Yes, I was the first employee there. I didn't found that company, I was

the first employee. And we developed high-performance lubricants based on very special sunflower oil for industry – hydraulic oils that are very energy-efficient and also biodegradable. Interesting. And how did you then get into the energy world? What path led you there – it's somewhat related through climate, but the energy world specifically. Why did you decide to go in that direction? Actually, I always had contact with the energy world because we sold the hydraulic oils on one hand through their biodegradability, but also through energy savings.

And we really went into companies and measured, for example with plastic injection molding machines, how much energy they actually need – with a mineral oil and then with the HiC Sunflower, that's what the oil is called. And that's how I really got closer to understanding: how much energy does a company actually need, what kind of massive costs are involved – and I kept getting closer to that. Cool. Yes. And then? How did it then come to the idea of ultimately founding Polarstern as a company? And with a few more background stories too.

Yes, of course. So Polarstern as it exists today – that wasn't our founding idea. Our founding idea was triggered quite differently. It came from the gas market. Because, if you – you know about renewable electricity. Yes. And just the same: renewable electricity, anyone can get that relatively easily. But the fact is that of a private household's energy consumption, about twenty percent is electricity and eighty percent is heat, because in winter we heat, and that's much more

than what we consume through lights or things like that. And when we started fifteen years ago, there was no decent product on the gas market. You could get renewable electricity – okay, so you could make about twenty percent of your consumption somehow sustainable. But for the rest you still had to source natural gas. And that's when we took the renewable electricity market as a blueprint and developed a gas product, that is, biogas origin guarantees, and we had that certified by the TÜV. We wanted to sell these biogas origin guarantees to other energy suppliers, just like

how it is with electricity origin certificates. Unfortunately, nobody wanted those. They said: Why? Yes, great, finally a real innovation in the gas market again after such a long time. But then they also said: We move with the times, not ahead of them. And you have to think about that. As a founder – I mean, you're a founder yourself – what do you do with that? And we said: Okay, if the others don't want it, fine, then we'll start our own energy supplier. And if we do gas

that was obvious, of course we do electricity the same way. And that's how Polarstern was created. Yes, interesting. I've heard several similar stories in the energy world, where founders had the same problem. I think Octopus or others like that had it. Mobility House comes to mind too – those who also said they tried to sell their product to energy suppliers, and somehow they didn't want it. Okay, then we'll do it ourselves. And that was perhaps still

something to add? No, I wanted to ask: Was that already a brave decision to enter the competition? And what were the milestones? How did you manage to convince your first customers? Well, first of all, we built a website. And then we said: Okay, it's online now, and then 10,000 customers will come flooding in. Of course that didn't happen. So we were like most founders – and even though I already knew it, maybe at the beginning we were still too focused on the product.

I said: Hey, we want to have the perfect product – and thought it would just sell itself. And of course it didn't. So the first customers – who were they? Friends, family. We acquired them laboriously on the street, sometimes even here in Munich, through marketing. Yes, exactly, we actually did that too. Tried everything. Do you know those high-pressure cleaners with stencils, when you engrave something like that on the ground? We did all of that. Everything you do sometimes.

And bit by bit, customers actually started coming. And we early on adopted a multichannel approach, very online-heavy. That was still innovative back then – from 2010. Yes, exactly, 2011. Founded 2011. In the end it takes two years before you get a foothold. And there were social media – Facebook was still really fancy. We sought direct customer contact from the beginning and still do that today. So our customers

and customers – we are still very accessible. And because of that, we have also managed to build strong credibility. And now we are mainly recommended by satisfied customers, alongside all the other marketing mix that you need as an energy provider. And Polarstern – the name. What's the background there? We had a few criteria, and then Polarstern came out in the end. One criterion was: we wanted a German name. We wanted a name that speaks for itself and that isn't as generic as it often is with all the startups. And then there was another ambition: it should perhaps have some association with the product

and maybe even with us. And in the end, I think we managed it – I think it's a beautiful name. It's obviously a German name, it has a certain recognition value. The Polarstern is the guiding star. We spend a lot of time in the mountains,

outdoors. The Polarstern is the compass in the sky, it is guiding. And that's exactly our ambition too. So there's a bit more meaning to it if you want. And a star is also energy. Yes, ultimately. And that's why it actually fits quite well. Of course, people don't read the same thing into it – some think of a fashion brand or something like that. But I still think it's beautiful. And the co-founders, the ones you then – what did you think of it? It's not always trivial to

find someone you trust and with whom you take such a big step together. Can you tell us a bit about that? Yes, actually we were more or less set up by a mutual friend. And it wasn't a sniffing-around phase – it wasn't like that. But it actually worked out quite well. And the first customers, you mentioned that. How do you look at the market, or how did you look at the market back then to differentiate yourself? The energy market – there

are many players. What were the core hypotheses that ultimately made you successful? The milestones at the beginning, and especially the initial hypotheses that then also proved true in some way. Well, I don't know if the initial hypotheses proved true – that would be nice if it were always that linear. But I think what really runs through like a golden thread and what is actually – and that is already

the core hypothesis – is: we wanted to build a brand in the energy market. A sustainable, credible brand. And I think we've managed that as Polarstern. Sustainable and credible means you have to be transparent. You can't sell nonsense. You have to have fair prices. You have to have excellent customer service. Your technology has to work. And you have to stand for clear values and clear products. I think we're in that sweet spot: we're really clearly sustainable – we do exclusively renewables, even for gas. No one else does that. We

we still have 100 percent renewable gas based on residual materials. We have 100 percent renewable electricity. Everything we do, except in mobility or tenant electricity, is always really 100 percent sustainable, but also with a certain technological and forward-thinking ambition. I understand. And the 100 percent sustainability – maybe you could go into a bit more detail there. You also operate facilities. Do you buy them? How should one imagine that? Both, so like most

players in the energy market. You don't have single sourcing, but of course you diversify your portfolio a bit. So we now produce almost 15 percent of the energy ourselves, in our own facilities. And otherwise we buy our electricity from the market from wind power, from PV systems, but also from hydroelectric power. And the campaign – maybe you could also add how to interpret that. That's probably what you just said. But you see it everywhere

here in the office and now on your t-shirt. For those who can't see it – that's the downside of a podcast, you only hear. That's exactly what I meant with the brand core, with conviction. I think it's important as a person to have conviction, to stand for certain things. But you can do that just as well as a company, as an enterprise. And that's really our conviction. Our vision and mission is to change the world with energy

and that deliberately also with this double meaning. And what we do is not bullshit, but it's really – we're sticking our necks out there, that's a conviction. So our products are actually called that: they're really called renewable electricity, really tenant electricity, really renewable gas. That means: hey, that's the real thing, the genuine article. And that really runs through everything, and actually from the very beginning. That is

certainly at least 12 years old or so. But it works well for us and is really part of our DNA. And the others – what's your view of the market? I've been quite enthusiastic about the energy transition for a long time now, I've been following it since 2004 and accordingly the developments. To be honest, most traditional energy suppliers initially actually opposed the energy transition. At least that's my perception, that 5 percent renewables was already seen as so impossible

by the traditional players. And then at some point in my perception came the assurance from the big players, and suddenly everyone was green. And how do you look at that when you say you're really green – compared to maybe the more traditional players? How would you say they're not really green? It's like – you can also go to McDonald's and eat a salad. That's actually the short answer to that. Not really green is when I still

have fossil energy in my portfolio, because it doesn't need to be there. Maybe it makes one thing or another easier, that's true. But if I'm really serious about it, then I just don't sell fossil energy anymore. And that for example – really means that when I offer renewable electricity, with every kilowatt-hour you get from me, I also support renewable installations, where customers know: hey, I'm also changing something in the market. If I get electricity from Polarstern now, then

I'm changing something in this entire electricity mix, because they build new installations. They guarantee me that. They don't just redistribute. So things like that – and at Polarstern: with every customer we build micro-biogas systems in Cambodia and PV systems in Madagascar. That means that's the energy transition worldwide. We bring the energy transition to us, we build additional capacity here, but we also build it worldwide. And that's exactly the difference to: I buy renewable electricity somewhere from some supplier or discount provider who is there

sometimes and sometimes isn't and who just buys cheap certificates somewhere, but otherwise doesn't change anything in the overall generation, in the entire electricity mix. What's your perspective on certificates? There are cheap ones and good ones. Maybe you could also help the listeners, who have surely heard of certificates but maybe don't understand them as well as you do? Well, basically one must say: certificates, also called origin guarantees – that's the same thing –, are extremely useful. A certificate in

itself is nothing bad. The issue is: what do you do with it? And where does it come from? How was it generated? And of course that's initially difficult for customers to

differentiate or understand. What's good, what's bad? It's quite simple: a certificate is essentially proof, ultimately to show: hey, where does the electricity come from, from which facility does it come? If it's a good certificate, I know exactly which facility the electricity comes from. Then the supplier can also tell you: hey, listen, we get our hydroelectric power, for example, from the Wasserburg power station on the Inn – that's how it would be for us. I can prove it to you. I can

show you, if you buy any, any junk, then it's not so easy to prove. Then suppliers often don't even know. So that's the first point. And if you want to be a bit more certain, then you look: hey, is the company certified? For example, with the Green Power Label. Interesting. And what's your vision? So we're now at 60 percent renewable in Germany. How do we get to 100 percent? And do you have ideas about how we get there?

You know, we always have these discussions. And it was also what you asked earlier about the energy suppliers. They refuse. We always have discussions: is this possible or is that not possible? The fact is: we have everything we need. We have the technologies. We know how it works. Yes, a 100 percent renewable world is possible too. Even if others say that's not the case. Yes, we need to change something. People always invest so much in preserving what exists,

and somehow in not having to change. We are so resistant to change. It's terrible. And yes, until we adapt any new technologies, innovations or whatever – terrible. But that's a different topic. The fact is: we have everything we need. We just have to want it. Yes. The energy system won't be the same. We won't have large facilities that simply produce, feed into the grid and that's it. No, we will have times – and we know this – where we produce way too much electricity

and times when we need electricity because we produce little – specifically with solar systems: when the sun shines, they produce. When the sun doesn't shine, there's no electricity. That means the entire system has to become more flexible. And that costs money too. So you really have to look in the mirror and say: yes, we need to put money into changing our energy system. But what? And that's where the discussion stops. But in my view, the discussion needs to

go much further. It needs to be about: what do we get out of it? We always only talk about what this crap costs, but not: what do we get out of it? Terrible, no matter who it is. And that's annoying. And if I may make some points: what do we get out of it as a society? We're talking around it. First of all, we get clean energy. Not bad if maybe you want to have children and maybe want to have grandchildren someday. And if you care a bit about the planet.

But it may be that people perhaps don't care that much. That's okay too – I think it's crap. But we have freedom of opinion. But the second point is, and I think it gets far too little attention: we become strategically independent. Where are we currently buying our stuff from? The fossil stuff comes from abroad. It usually comes from countries that are governed more authoritarily. That's billions that continuously flow out of the country for consumption. And what

we need to do now: we need to take those billions and use them not for consumption but for investments. Right here with us. Investments. We become more independent from abroad, strategically independent. In the long run we save money – as an entrepreneur you don't just look at what something costs you in the short term, but overall you look at it. That means we'll have an energy system that ultimately is cheaper than now. But first we need to put money into it. Ultimately we have a clean

system that is more independent. We are strategically much more stable and we save money too. Totally makes sense. And how does Polarstern want to play a role in this new energy system where flexibility especially plays a big role – batteries, demand side that should be controlled, maybe some other things too? Exactly as you put it. We're already playing this role. We operate facilities – for example, we operate an electrolyzer in Esslingen. And this electrolyzer produces green hydrogen with renewable electricity, so with solar and wind power on site. That

is fed into the gas network, displaces natural gas there, and the waste heat we produce there, we use it to heat a district. So that's energy transition par excellence. And the electrolyzer runs, by the way – like today when the sun shines like this and we have negative electricity prices – then it uses the excess electricity to produce hydrogen, and that's nothing other than storing electricity. That means everything is possible. We do it. And our role is especially to show that

it is possible. We do this tenant electricity, where we couple PV systems with heat pumps, with battery storage, with EV charging infrastructure and operate and simply optimize such an energy system. That's on a small scale – Polarstern is, so to speak, a boutique. We are specialists. Yes, but hey, if we can do it, then corporations certainly can too. Yes. How do you view these large battery storage amounts that have been requested now for grid connection capacities of – I think – over 200 GW by now? So if they all come, the game is up. Then we have exactly

the flexibilities. I don't think they'll all come because we ultimately don't need that much. But it shows: if you set clear framework conditions, if you give the market clear lines, then we find solutions too. And that's why I actually look at it rather positively, basically from an energy industry perspective. They of course need to be built in the right places, but the Federal Network Agency or the distribution network operators will manage that ultimately. But basically I look at it rather positively. And do you

then play a role in that direction? Do you want to play a role in that? We operate battery storage, but not large-scale storage. We operate more on a small-scale basis. We're really embedded in the objects. In tenant electricity, for example, it's always multi-family buildings with 20 to 500 units, something like that. Those are our target groups. Or in commercial solutions: the commercial business that has a PV system with charging infrastructure and commercial storage. Those are our – we're at the end customer. Our core target group is end customers: private, commercial, industrial end customers, and not the residential segment.

In the residential segment, we operate with tariffs, but not with infrastructure. Residential segment means for me the single-family home, where so many rush in. We're more in the complicated stuff. In these multi-family buildings, metering concepts are more complicated. That's our home turf. That's where we're good. Real estate inventory, new construction of real estate, commercial real estate – that's our home turf. And there we also have solar systems, battery storage – we combine all these systems for these target groups. Correct. Heat pumps, combined heat and power plants. Technologically we can really handle everything –

everything standard. Yes, I understand. And dynamic electricity tariffs are becoming more common too. As of the first of this year, they were actually mandatory for Germany. It comes from the EU – the Clean Energy Package defined that too. And it makes a lot of sense that the end consumer also benefits when electricity costs are cheap in that quarter hour. When it's cheap, there's a lot of green power. How do you see this topic? Very positively as well. We have

of course already had dynamic tariffs in our offer last year, with smart meters and without smart meters, so that really everyone can have their dynamic tariff. I think it's quite positive. People just have to understand it – and that's actually the biggest challenge. Technologically it's solved. But this understanding: "Hey, I can now turn on my washing machine, electricity is cheaper" – and making it as easy as possible, that's important. And that you stick with it. I have

of course a dynamic electricity tariff at my home. And even I notice it with myself: At first totally fancy, you're constantly checking in. And then you lose it. Energy is just a commodity, low interest so to speak. The fascination does fade over time. And you have to keep at it and keep motivating people. And does AI already play a role for you? It's been on everyone's lips, especially since ChatGPT.

The short answer is: Yes, it plays a role. We use it internally and externally. We actually have our own chatbots to codify our knowledge and support our entire team. But of course there are still opportunities for expansion. We try to use it in a way that we leverage the advantages – namely easy knowledge access and personalization – to make our work easier, so we can spend even more time in

human-to-human personalization with customers. Makes total sense. And you mentioned at the beginning that Polarstern is a German word. Does that mean you want to limit yourselves to the German-speaking region, or how should one understand that? And do you have internationalization goals? We probably made a strategic mistake at the time of founding because we still focus on the German market. Maybe the DACH region would work – Germany, Austria, Switzerland – and

currently have no plans to expand internationally. We do work internationally in that we build micro-biogas plants in Cambodia with our partners or in Madagascar we have Solar Impact sites with PV systems where we build microgrids. We do that. But that's not our core business. Why not? The German energy market is very – if you really act as a utility and not as a software provider or something – it's still very fragmented even within the EU. From one country

to another you have different regulations, et cetera. The German energy market is simply still big enough for us to establish ourselves here first. There are players in the energy industry who have become very large and scaled quickly, especially in different countries, like Octopus Energy. There aren't that many innovative energy utility start-ups in Germany. Wouldn't you have the ambition to scale faster as well? How can one imagine your founding story, what the

As far as financing goes: in the start-up sector there are VCs. And how have you financed yourselves so far? I think that's the essential difference. There are real exit boom-boom-boom phases. Um, the things you mentioned belong to that too. But that's not our approach. My approach – our approach – is really to be free, to be independent, and also to do what we think makes sense. And you're independent too. We are independent. I am together with my wife

majority shareholder. We built it together, so not just me. Interesting, with your wife. Yes, interesting. And she doesn't step into the public eye as much, not as happy to. But she puts just as much heart and know-how into it as I do. But no, we actually wanted – we deliberately decided at the beginning to go the bootstrap route, not to bring in VC money. We had the offers on the table, but to really do our own thing.

And that's why we've grown a bit more slowly and we're not doing this boom-boom-boom thing. But the impact can be just as good. You don't have to say: I've got the biggest piece of the pie. I first show that there's actually a nice piece at all, that it tastes good. And that's kind of our role, to be a trendsetter, to show: Hey, this works. And if others follow, that's great. Yes, I also found that IKEA inspired me recently in that sense. I had a

bit of "Acquired" podcast – maybe you know the series – it's also very good on the topic of being a founder. And they broke down the IKEA story there. And they also did it without external financing – actually, I think external capital was really only a very small amount that they got from the bank once – and then they scaled to what IKEA is now. Of course it took time, but it's definitely possible to build a company without doing boom-

bam-bam, as you say. Just on that, because I personally actually once considered doing something together with my partner – there are some stories where people do that. How do you see that? Maybe you also have tips for those who are considering it right now, how it can succeed and how to overcome additional difficulties – so to speak, this joint founding. Yes, I think there's no one-size-fits-all answer to that. If you asked

the people, some would say: No, it doesn't work at all. Because we all go in with our prejudices. I think it's awesome. I really think it's great, with all the difficulties. But I think the advantages really far outweigh them. First of all, to have this shared understanding – to have a partner at home that you can talk to on equal terms. That's just really enriching. It also makes me want to show that it – this hey, it also has something

to do with equality – that it works at all. My wife is an absolutely great sparring partner. I think we can talk very well mutually. And there are many success stories. I mean, Jeff Bezos also built Amazon with his wife for decades. That he's now divorced doesn't necessarily have to be the reason. But the company is ultimately doing pretty well. There are far more positive examples than you'd think at first glance. Of course you have to look – I mean,

we also have kids – so that at home we don't only talk about the company. And that you have a clear line – or rather, you never quite get it in – but still enough self-reflection to create some distance again. That's why I'd say: It works. Be open and honest, it really has to be on equal terms. And then I think it's extremely enriching. And back to the founding story so far: What would you say were the milestones in the

company – lowlights as well as highlights? Oh my, that's always... A highlight is of course just to start at all. For me it was always a highlight – or a goal – to reach breakeven at some point. I was, I don't know, around 45 years old or so. The first time breakeven – that's so great. Yes, but that's the thing: At the beginning, time is always your biggest enemy. If something takes longer – wow, it feels right away like it's existentially threatening. And that's awful.

Yes, because – sorry – nothing is plannable. Or: no plan is guaranteed, let's put it that way. Everything is plannable. That means things always take longer, and you're always way too optimistic – we as founders have to be, otherwise you wouldn't do it in the first place. But that means things take longer. And when that's no longer a total problem because it still works – then it takes longer, but it still works. I found that

– I find – this breakeven thing really feels good. It really took a lot of stress off me. And then we had – we had an investor at the beginning, a strategic investor, not a VC, from renewable project development. And it just didn't fit. He didn't bring his investment, and we then – we were really close to, yes, we were actually more than halfway over the abyss. And then we finally said: Hey,

Listen: If we manage to find someone in two months who buys you out, then we get your shares at the rate you came in at. And if not, you get ours. And yes, because it just wasn't working anymore. It was like a stalemate situation. We managed it, obviously. And that was, for example, such a lowlight. Yes, there it is. Yes, I can well imagine. And on the topic of e-mobility – Smart Charge is what the podcast is called too. How do you see that?

And particularly in the commercial context: How does Polarstern play a role there, but how is the topic of e-mobility in general? Well, I'm personally totally convinced of e-mobility because it's just a really wonderful driving experience. It's dynamic and at the same time calm driving. Anyone who hasn't driven an electric car yet should just try it. And then it's actually also a very future-oriented technology – not just ecologically speaking now. But I think the decision is made. It's

You know. Some say they believe it or don't believe it. But battery technology itself is also far from being fully developed. The combustion engine is so fully developed – we can still make innovation leaps in nuances. With batteries, we still have many. It starts, of course, with the ingredients, some of which are still critical. But there are already technologies that have batteries or cell chemistry where there's little or no cobalt anymore, and so on. So no more critical

critical ingredients. Batteries can be recycled – they're not just burned. Batteries are far from fully developed in terms of overall energy density, durability, cathode, anode. We're just getting started. And if you think about how development leaps have been exponential in recent years: 1,000 kilometers of range wouldn't be an issue anymore. It's still a bit expensive, but batteries are getting cheaper. So all the disadvantages that are often put forward

– where are they made, the range isn't enough, in winter they can't do anything – not everything has the finished, truly series-production ready mega-product on the market yet. But it's already foreseeable everywhere. And unfortunately we've slept through the technological train a bit. If you look at what BYD, CATL or others are doing in China, what batteries they've presented – you're probably following that. It's crazy. And those aren't pilot series, those are

real mass production series. And those are batteries with 800, 1,000 kilometers of range, absolute durability. That's already wild. Yeah, totally. And Polarstern to add: Sorry, I was so focused on the technology. What I actually want to say is: It will prevail. Maybe it takes a bit longer because the resistance forces are bigger than you think. But ultimately it won't prevail from the ideological context, but from the technological one. That's my conviction. And that's why we're also going into

the mobility market. We operate – we're a CPO, Charge Point Operator. That means we operate charging infrastructure in multi-party buildings, underground garages, but also in commercial fleets. We were the first to also offer variable tariffs for electric cars. We're not that well known, but pretty well positioned in charging infrastructure overall, especially non-public. Charging point operator – but we also do public. Do you see yourselves anywhere? In which cities can people find you? Yes,

actually in Berlin, for example. But we're not at municipal charging points – the utilities usually handle that. Here in Munich too, the municipal utilities still have a monopoly; we just took part in a tender there. But the public charging points are on private property, but publicly accessible – at companies, for example, so kind of semi-public. Exactly. Interesting. And how do you see the municipal utilities topic? We're still known in Germany for having so

many distribution networks managed by municipal utilities, and the municipal utilities are then also in competition with you. People seem to be very loyal to the municipal utilities, though they also have a reputation for not being the most innovative. How come? And will that change? You can't tar them all with the same brush. There are totally innovative municipal utilities, and there are ones that are totally slow. And it has nothing to do with size either, somehow it's about

company culture. I think the municipal utility is a really good story – actually also where it comes from – because it also has the possibility of being in municipal hands ideally. And I think municipal utilities will continue to have their raison d'être because they're very credible, very accessible to customers, very loyal, very tangible. That's why I'm a bit of a secret fan of innovative municipal utilities. Not of the self-promoters – that makes sense. And back to e-mobility again: How do you see the topic of intelligent charging and especially bidirectional charging with great anticipation and excitement. I think it will be an absolute game changer in the overall market, but also for us, when it's really approved now. Imagine I'm in a multi-party building. I operate a PV system there. I operate other consumers, so a heat pump. I have customers throughout the building and maybe charging infrastructure down there and can use these batteries – that's really a big battery – if

10 cars are standing there, you already have a MW, or whatever, with 15 definitely a MW standing there. And I could use that to optimize the building's power supply. That would be amazing, of course. Technologically it's possible, regulatorily not yet. But I'm optimistic. In France it's already possible that we'll also open up. And I'm keeping an eye on that. I think that will be a huge thing for the energy market. Yes, and that topic – well, there are various aspects to what you'd call intelligent charging. And some are already doable today, conditionally, if you had a smart meter or if the meter was right. So just this non-bidirectional, just in one direction so to speak, simply shifting the load – is that already a topic for you today? Yes, we already do that too, actually. But not with charging. Rather, we do it for example with heat pumps. There you also have certain degrees of freedom, certain flexibilities for when the buffer storage

is charged. Those are the first steps in load management. I think intelligent charging without bidirectionality already creates value and makes sense. But bidirectional charging will really be the game changer. The regulatory framework needs to be adapted, but I'm confident it will happen. Countries like France are already showing the way. Once that's approved in Germany, I think we'll see massive growth in that area.

should be charged. Those are the first steps in load management. I think intelligent charging without bidirectionality already creates value and makes sense. But bidirectional charging will really be the game changer. The regulatory framework needs to be adapted, but I'm confident it will happen. Countries like France are already showing the way. Once that's approved in Germany, I think we'll see massive growth in that area.

is being filled, for example. And in that sense, yes, it's a topic for us, and we're dealing with it. And I'm happy if it becomes more possible on a broader scale. There's the topic of Germany versus the world, or a bit of international comparisons: Germany is seen from the outside by many with admiration and by many also with criticism for the energy transition and how it's happening. You've been right in the middle of it for quite some time. How do you see the topic of how Germany is approaching the energy transition, and in

particular in comparison internationally? The energy transition is, like so much that we've invented in Germany, absolutely groundbreaking, probably technologically or also world-changing.

But we've botched it, really making something of it. We've somehow stifled our own success a bit in my view. It's not only advantages. It costs money, we have to rebuild the systems, and we can't continue as before. That's all correct. But we've actually managed to bring that negative connotation along, only seeing the heavy and negative side. And also to squander the technological lead we had – whether with storage systems, earlier with

solar modules – to let it slip away. Electric cars: BMW with the i was among the first and is still not bad today. But we got overtaken. That's why – I think the energy transition is a worldwide export hit. Not one-to-one as a blueprint, but as an idea, as inspiration, and as a way to implement something. You can see that already worldwide. And we would have had a huge opportunity there to also build up our second automotive industry, and we somewhat botched it, once again. And there are

some reasons in Germany, you're one of them. And also in the energy sector there's a bit less. You also hinted at it earlier, Germany could be a bit more innovative. What would – what gives you courage every day? And what, if you say you have to fight against this striving to maintain the status quo and not open up to new things the way perhaps other cultures do? I'd also see it that way, that there are some cultures that are a bit more open. What gives you courage

every day then to get up? And what makes you optimistic that we in Germany will win back on the path of innovation? We are – I've also lived abroad for really many years. And what holds us back also makes us strong in turn. We're somewhere critical spirits, but we also like to think along. Sometimes then a bit too critical again. And then of course we see the problems that could

exist. But that also has great strength. And that's why I believe we have all the possibilities – whether financially, from the business side, education is still strong. We also still have a great community in Germany, also a reasonable social coexistence. I believe, that's why we have all the possibilities, even if necessary, to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps from the mire. We just need a bit of a kick in the pants. And I hope that we

get it before we have to drive full speed nose-first into the wall, but maybe get the turn before that. I believe we're already talking about a lot of really good things here. And that's why I totally believe we can do it. And if we miss a chance here, well, then we'll create the next one and hopefully actually pull it off sometime. Yes. And if you look at the next five to ten years – what are trends and

things that occupy you, where you think: wow, that could be a game-changer now? You mentioned only one with bidirectional charging. But maybe there are other things that somehow preoccupy you – in the energy market, whether energy, but also maybe other cross-cutting technologies that are coming, like AI or something. Well okay, but that yes. So there I would be.

I'm not smarter either, I'm also just cooking with water. So: No, I don't have the secret sauce lying around somewhere and haven't invested at home. Not at all. But it's guaranteed – with AI I'm 1000% convinced that it will turn our entire working world upside down, not just the energy market. I'm a guy who believes in the positive side of that. I think it has huge opportunities. And of course: everything that's powerful like a medicine can heal extremely well.

But too much of it or applied wrongly, it's also extremely harmful. And so it is of course also with AI. That means we need reasonable regulation. What does that mean? I don't know exactly what it means. I can only say: enough freedom to allow innovations and really be able to use them. And also enough clear lines – probably so hard in the fundamental values, a few hard guardrails, and then plenty of freedom in between. I think that's extremely innovation-promoting. And I believe that

is the biggest thing overall. That will run through everything. And do you see yourself in the future still longer in the energy sector and also with Polarstern? Do you have a lot more ahead of you? Or have you also worked out for yourself at some point that it could be something else? No idea. I do think that I – no, I don't have exit thoughts or anything like that. I'm keen. I enjoy doing my thing. I approach it with joy. And you asked: What does it take? What gives you hope? I

I believe you need an intrinsic fire. And I don't see it diminishing in any way – quite the opposite, actually. And that's why I think I'll be around for a while longer. Great. And for founders, especially those who might be in a difficult phase, or who are now wondering: Now could I start a company, or should I start a company? What would be your tips for dealing with difficult phases or whether you should start a company? Maybe you have a few encouraging thoughts. I think you should do what you really want to do.

And then really go for it with your whole heart and your whole mind. And whether that's starting a company – if it is, then yes, you should try it. Hey, what's the worst that could happen? Then it doesn't work out – so what? You can always do something else. You can perhaps try a second or third time and then do something different. But don't put it off too long; just try it. And have some healthy dose of naivety and optimism. But also don't

fool yourself. Yes, I think wanting and being able must come together. Just wanting isn't enough. And just being able isn't either. You need that inner fire. You need the conviction to go with it. And it never works out in a straight line from the start – the direct line, the hockey stick, it's not like that. That means you have to have your own fire, because you usually won't get it from outside, and also to push through it, even through the dry phases. But just pushing through and

believing and hoping – that doesn't cut it either. You really have to be able to do your job properly. I'm seeing parallels here to energy transition users, to those who have to implement the energy transition in businesses and trades, and who you then work with. You'd actually see similar aspects there: being able, believing, you really have to prepare yourself and question things and calculate it properly. That's exactly it. And then it pays off too. You have to – and you also have to want to,

because life consists of resistance too, not just tailwinds. Yes. Then, before we wrap up: Do you perhaps have any last words or any advice for the listeners on how to reach you best or what you'd like to tell them? Last words – hopefully not, that would be a bit too early. But I think what I meant before: maintain your stance. Yes, stand up for your convictions. And if necessary, also against resistance –

I think that's an important quality. And you also need it – we're talking from a founder perspective – you simply need it. And so: just try it. Cool. And how else can people reach you or follow you? Are you active on LinkedIn, or what's the best way to stay in touch with you? With Polarstern: www.polarstern-energie.de – that's definitely the place to go. And otherwise, of course, you can also find me on LinkedIn under Florian Henle. So, Florian, with that: Thank you very much

for the conversation. Thank you, Claudio. What a story. In our conversation with Florian Henle, we learned not only how Polarstern came about, but also how much personal conviction and clarity goes into every step. Together with his wife, Florian not only started a family, but also a company that has remained independent to this day because they wanted to do their own thing from the beginning. What was particularly inspiring for me was how Florian dealt with setbacks and managed to become profitable, and how innovatively they

operate – whether with an electrolyzer for green hydrogen, intelligent tenant electricity models or CPO solutions for commercial charging infrastructure. Polarstern shows: you can create impact without compromising on your purpose. And maybe that's the most important impulse from this episode: if the others aren't on board, then you just do it yourself. If you enjoyed the episode, subscribe to Smart Charge by RiDERgy, recommend us to others, and check out polarstern-energie.de or Florian Henle on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. See you in the next episode.

Episode notes

Was tun, wenn kein Energieversorger ein innovatives Ökogasprodukt kaufen will? Gründen. Genau das hat Florian Henle, Mitgründer und Chief Executive Officer von Polarstern, getan – gemeinsam mit seiner Frau, ganz ohne VC-Geld, dafür mit umso mehr Überzeugung. In dieser Folge sprechen wir über die bootstrapped Gründungsgeschichte von Polarstern, den bewussten Weg zur 100 % echten Nachhaltigkeit, und warum Florian überzeugt ist, dass Haltung heute wichtiger ist als kurzfristiges Wachstum. Wir reden über den Einstieg in den Wasserstoffmarkt, Polarsterns Rolle als CPO für Ladeinfrastruktur, die Herausforderungen der Energiewende – und warum Deutschland trotzdem allen Grund zur Hoffnung hat. Ein Gespräch über Energie, Verantwortung und den Mut, seinen eigenen Weg zu gehen.